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Lucario
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11/30/2009, 12:25 AM
(This post was last modified: 11/30/2009 12:55 AM by zain.)
Post: #1
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I was waiting for you guys to notice he was gone. :\ I think I'll do Lucario myself eventually. Anyways Proposed Changes: Hitboxes for all smashes uniform size (to the largest hitbox). Possible range increase on Fsmash SideB in the air is a grab that spikes (270 degree angle). Up Special has vastly increased speed, startup, endlag, and does not put Lucario into fallspecial while launching him far distances, such as in early versions of Brawl+. Cooldown on Aura Sphere shooting animation sped up 1.5x to allow chasing. 1st hit of Dair has set knockback to be harder to SDI. Large grab box on or near ears during all grabs. Slightly larger horizontal grab range. Startup on tilts sped up 1.3x Jab sped up for a hitbox on frame 3. Double Team is sped up and is active for a longer period of time. Possible change to super armor instead of invincibility? Dtilt trajectory changed to a higher angle with lower growth for combos. Higher air speed. Much faster dash. Uair hitbox covers tail. Rolls have IASA frames of some sort. Nair hitbox covers entire body. ForcePalm grab has grab box on body to grab people who were "too close." |
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11/30/2009, 12:42 AM
Post: #2
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Oooh, if you are having rolls having IASA frames, make sure he can keep that momentum similar to a glide toss on his uptilt. That would be incredibly sexy, to be able to preform a moving uptilt. You definetly need to give him something on Neutral Air. Make the hitbox rather large. I think the main thing we could do is increase his weight slightly (not too much) and give him a doubled boost off of aurora. Also, don't let stock influence it. That gets rather annoying to have your power dropped when you kill someone. In fact, why don't we decrease his over all power at the begining of his life and radically increases his power up ability. Another change I would make is giving the 2nd hitbox, the disjointed one set knock back on all of his moves with high hitstun, but the physical part of his body kill power, but giving him a lot of heavy armor to make up for his change. Now we see a Lucario even more focused on spacing, on revenge killing and momentum, as well as having the added ability to not flinch against light hits and punish them. Also, for his grab range, don't change the horizontal range on it, make the already good anti-air grab even better. Oh, and a change that definitely needs to be made, when he's up close and he uses Side B, he can't hit anyone, put a hitbox in the center of his body to prevent this. |
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11/30/2009, 12:54 AM
Post: #3
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(11/30/2009 12:42 AM)CRASHiC Wrote: Oooh, if you are having rolls having IASA frames, make sure he can keep that momentum similar to a glide toss on his uptilt. That would be incredibly sexy, to be able to preform a moving uptilt.Problem is Lucario has cement feet, so sliding is gonna require a massive overall change to his roll, which honestly sounds a bit weird. Meh, I wonder if there's a way to make it so that interruptible frames are limited. Nair hitbox should cover his entire body, not just the arms, then. Quote:I think the main thing we could do is increase his weight slightly (not too much) and give him a doubled boost off of aurora.Aura I don't think anyone knows how to influence yet. Stock aura is fine, though. Weight increase is probably going to be interesting. Quote:In fact, why don't we decrease his over all power at the begining of his life and radically increases his power up ability.Aura can't be edited right now, or at least I don't think they've figured it out yet... Quote:Another change I would make is giving the 2nd hitbox, the disjointed one set knock back on all of his moves with high hitstun, but the physical part of his body kill power, but giving him a lot of heavy armor to make up for his change. Now we see a Lucario even more focused on spacing, on revenge killing and momentum, as well as having the added ability to not flinch against light hits and punish them.Lucario's biggest boon is his ability to kill you from wtfhowdidthathit, and this change would probably kill the character we know and love. Also, Bowser already has a degree of super armor. I don't think we should have that property on more than one character. << Quote:Also, for his grab range, don't change the horizontal range on it, make the already good anti-air grab even better.The vertical grab range was a myth. He never had good vertical grab range. That's why I made the idea for a grab box near or on his ears. *did Lucario's hitbubbles* Quote:Oh, and a change that definitely needs to be made, when he's up close and he uses Side B, he can't hit anyone, put a hitbox in the center of his body to prevent this.This'll probably work well. |
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11/30/2009, 01:58 AM
Post: #4
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Quote:Lucario's biggest boon is his ability to kill you from wtfhowdidthathit, and this change would probably kill the character we know and love. Also, Bowser already has a degree of super armor. I don't think we should have that property on more than one character. << I understand this completely. Just brain storming. Quote:The vertical grab range was a myth. He never had good vertical grab range. That's why I made the idea for a grab box near or on his ears. xDD Wow, I always took that as fact to this day. It had a graph and everything xD Glad to be corrected. |
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11/30/2009, 05:02 AM
Post: #5
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Quick question, if you can interrupt the roll... could you interrupt the roll into a roll and just be a solid intangible object? I don't think we want that.
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11/30/2009, 06:22 AM
(This post was last modified: 11/30/2009 06:22 AM by zain.)
Post: #6
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(11/30/2009 05:02 AM)Spongejordan123 Wrote: Quick question, if you can interrupt the roll... could you interrupt the roll into a roll and just be a solid intangible object? I don't think we want that. I don't see why that would be a problem. I'm almost sure that could work. |
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11/30/2009, 10:24 AM
Post: #7
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Lucario's roll is really, really powerful. The problem that Sponge mentions is essentially true, because it gives lucario's roll like 5 frames that can be punished. We could make Lucario's roll cancel into anything other than itself, which would be cool, or we could nerf the invincibility. So I hear that if you speed up Lucario's upB, it goes further... How about we give the whole thing IASA frames, no specialfall, and make it faster/further? Dair angle changed from random upwards to random... something, I dunno. Is that possible, like, set the angle to a random number? |
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11/30/2009, 11:27 AM
(This post was last modified: 11/30/2009 12:24 PM by Spongejordan123.)
Post: #8
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His fair needs more damage. bair needs more knockback growth doubleteam needs more power and speed uthrow needs less knockback growth fthrow needs more damage/knockback |
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11/30/2009, 12:19 PM
Post: #9
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Double Team really, really sucks. What I'd propose for double team is, if the opponent hits the move, they get either stunned or dizzy, so you can pull off pretty much whatever the fuck you want. |
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11/30/2009, 12:25 PM
Post: #10
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That sounds like a great idea.
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11/30/2009, 11:49 PM
Post: #11
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Problem is, Mewtwo project was doing that, and it doesn't work very well, since, Lucario always seemed to move when performing the move (I think). Besides, I like Double Team. It looks cool, and I'm pretty sure it's the most powerful counter (although the least accurate). Also, Extremespeed needs damage. And knockback. Seriously, it's gotta be better than Pikachu's Quick Attack >.< |
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![[Image: brawlx.png]](http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2083/brawlx.png)
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12/01/2009, 02:23 AM
Post: #12
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It will be, because you can cancel it into an aerial at any time, and steer it.
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12/02/2009, 01:32 PM
Post: #13
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Can you give him launch resistance that scales based on his damage, so that at 200% he'll have to take a very powerful attack to kill him.
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12/02/2009, 08:37 PM
Post: #14
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(12/02/2009 01:32 PM)Mawootad Wrote: Can you give him launch resistance that scales based on his damage, so that at 200% he'll have to take a very powerful attack to kill him. No, I believe that would defeat the risk/reward playstyle for which many have picked up Lucario. I'd rather just make him heavier overall, and maybe some permanent launch resistance (he is a steel type, after all) to counter the other characters' increased power. |
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12/03/2009, 09:05 PM
Post: #15
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(12/02/2009 08:37 PM)fire42uck Wrote:(12/02/2009 01:32 PM)Mawootad Wrote: Can you give him launch resistance that scales based on his damage, so that at 200% he'll have to take a very powerful attack to kill him. Being steel type Lucario should have super armor on all hits that do 1% or less (if that's possible O_o). I.E. all spammy jab combos. |
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12/03/2009, 11:26 PM
Post: #16
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Bowser already has so much super armor. We don't need another super-armor heavy character. But Lucario definitely needs super armor on his Up-B in addition to IASA frames. Maybe give it a knockback-only hitbox on his head?
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12/04/2009, 03:53 PM
Post: #17
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My dream : the 2nd hit of his Dair become a spike. It should be the easiest Ken combo to do with Fair and Dair, so it should be a weak spike (or strong if you really want him to be broken XD). Otherwise... range increased on Dsmash, decrease knockback on Bside to perform Chain-grab (it's not a good idae if you aim to avoid chain-grad in brawl minus), aura sphere charges quicker, ... |
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12/17/2009, 05:18 PM
Post: #18
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I think the best way to break Lucario is to make his Aura much more of a part of the game. Give him more weight, make the aura cap at 300% instead of 182% (or whatever) and generally scale the Aura effects up. Lucario should be an easy-to-underestimate character until his neutral-B turns into the Super Spirit Bomb. He also needs a much-improved recovery. In Pokemon, Extremespeed deals damage. In Smash, it does not. This needs to be fixed. Call me a purist. |
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12/17/2009, 05:39 PM
Post: #19
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Aura is something we can't mess with directly. However, it scales by multiplying, not adding, so if we buff moves a little, they end up buffed a lot at the end. And I'm all for upping lucario's weight to a bit further than bowser's. :V
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12/17/2009, 05:57 PM
Post: #20
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(12/17/2009 05:39 PM)The Cadet Wrote: Aura is something we can't mess with directly. However, it scales by multiplying, not adding, so if we buff moves a little, they end up buffed a lot at the end. And I'm all for upping lucario's weight to a bit further than bowser's. :VThe problem with increasing his weight directly is that it makes it easier to combo him at early percents. If it's possible, I think that his weight should increase as his damage increases. |
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