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Improvement Suggestions for Sonic
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07/08/2010, 02:52 PM
Post: #1
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If you have suggestions for how to work on Sonic in Minus. feel free to post it here. As always I feel as there is nothing wrong with at least trying them before a final yes or no is made, but I'm trying to get discussion started on this character. I'm mostly wanting to tweak him at this point, since I feel that he is just about where he needs to be. My Suggestions to try : 1: mainatin Sonic's hitbox during the spin Dash turnaround animation. Maybe make it a multihitbox. That would be interesting to see the turnaround used as part of a strategy, even if the attack damage from it is weak, and at least he's not completely screwed when he does it nearby somebody. 2: Make Sonic say "Here I'll Show you!" or some kinda cool phrase during his spin dash charge (Down B). so that it doesn't get too annoying, only have it happen once he reaches maximum charge. 3: Give Sonic an extra jump, only during the spin dash roll (SDR). sonics usually kill themselves due to forgetting they dont have any jumps left so this would be nice. its kinda like when Captain falcon got an extra jump from falcoln kick in melee. 4: the ability to cancel his upair into nair/fair, and the ability to cancel his fair into nair. this would make the combos more dynamic and minusy IMO. i think it would be amazing just to see. Sonic can already cancel his Dsmash and Upsmash and taunt so this helps not only to add a bit more to his spin dash combos but gives more ability to pressure opponents when he does get in. 5: giving Sonic super armor during his Spin dash specials This should help against projectile spam, even if he takes damage. i'm only suggesting making it only good against basic projectiles like mario's fireballs or bowsers flame breath. Even if it only happens after max charge that should be fine. It seems as tho people are simply tossing out projectiles when Sonic is giving them trouble and it really shuts him down too much. At least give him an option to get through that spam guys. I really want to advocate and buff his spin dash properties as well as the followup potential to make them more useful. i dont use them that much so far in minus because his running dash is so much better, compared to vbrawl, and the buffs should make him more what he is about, and make him more dangerous at least when he is spinning, instead of an easily stopped ball of no-priority. Actually as it stands its easier to stop due to buffs in projectile game from many characters. 2: make his running speed faster LOL lol i dont know if he needs to be any faster, but it would be cool just to see. It would make sonic very, very, techincal though, even though he is already. he'd be hard to control which sounds just like him IMO. even now I am prone to dropping combos due to flying past my opponent when im racking up damage but i want to see if the envelope can be push the most in this area, and see what the response to players will be. Please give them a try, and ill be glad to test. these ideas shouldn't be too broken, and the kill moves are left alone with these suggestions. and i really think we should use the cancels to redefine sonic in brawl minus, and make him the most mobile character on the roster. |
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09/08/2010, 07:33 AM
Post: #2
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things i think that are just bad on almost all chars are diving down airs. change that so it doesn't dive and has a low landing lag and you will see a nasty type of sonic appear. kus the rat weasel thing has potential.
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09/10/2010, 02:56 AM
Post: #3
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(07/08/2010 02:52 PM)KojinSagara Wrote: If you have suggestions for how to work on Sonic in Minus. feel free to post it here. As always I feel as there is nothing wrong with at least trying them before a final yes or no is made, but I'm trying to get discussion started on this character. I'm mostly wanting to tweak him at this point, since I feel that he is just about where he needs to be. 1: Agreed. Sonic's Spin Dashes need more Minus priority. 2: Definitely. And how about him saying something like "Come on!" when he charges his Side B? 3: Is this suggestion for the Down B only? Because there is NOTHING more frustrating then suicide Side B's with Sonic. NOTHING, its like watching a slow moving ball plummet to its imminent demise. 4: Sonic should have more cancelable moves in general, it just makes sense for his character, especially in Minus. 5: Super armor should only be on the initial launch of the Dash, then translate to something like Heavy Armor thats strong, but can be broken by a Smash Attack. Also at full charge, Spin Dashes should be WAYYYY stronger, like decent kill moves strong. Just make full charge take a bit longer. 6: LOL I mean he is Sonic after all, but he is WAY to hard to control in Minus. Of course as a Sonic main, I support him being speed up, but there seriously needs to be a way to control his speed and acceleration allowing him to utilize his grabs. Sonic's grabs are SO hard to be consistent with in Minus, all Sonic's priority problems seem to appear when your trying to grab someone. There is a PAC of Sonic on Kitty Corp where Sonic can do an insta-dash thats crazy fast but it can be stopped at anytime, like tap A and Sonic immedietley stops and preforms the move. When I think Sonic, I think instant, thus more cancelable moves are the NUMBER ONE improvement I think can be made to a Minus Sonic. Allowing Sonic to cancel more of his moves will allow more mindgames and combos. It will also allow more control over his speed, allowing it to be increased without making control impossible. One more thing, can Sonic's full turnaround dash PLEASE be fixed? Currently it makes Sonic freeze in the animation and totally vulnerable to attack. |
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09/12/2010, 10:13 PM
Post: #4
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i agree with the dash turnaround animation thing. thought of some more ideas: 1: increase sonics' Down B speed on his maximum charge. 2: take away his dash turnaround animation completely and replace it with his screech stop everytime the player wants to turn around, no matter the distance of the dash 3: remember the move sonic had in sonic 3 where if you jumped and taped jump again you got an insta shield animation? it was very cool. and i would love to see that utilized to buff his nair. basically it can be translated as some sort of electric element flash around nair that only lasts for maybe 2-3 frames, but during that time the hitbox and priority is increased, and maybe even super armor during that point in time. since the frame window is so small it can't be abused without any real skill, and it has a similar effect to olimar's whistle. 4: make down throw more useful in terms of its purpose which was to set up tech chases afterward. I dont like the way the beta is so far for 2.0 because its almost impossible to even try a tech chase unless u are psychic and from the future. 5: smashes that can hold a charge and store it. since sonic's smashes are weaker, if he could charge them, and save them it adds an element that would help his weaknesses with smashes in general. it only would keep the charge if it was a full charge, but then that means that sonic's charges would not auto release at full power, but be stored. once he charges the smash and stores it the next input of that smash, sonic will release it at full power, skipping the wind up animation. since Sonic would have to literally sit there and charge to full power to do this hed be vulnerable unless he was smart ( waited until he got a KO for example) 6: keep the dynamic of the 3rd Down Smash hit. Its really awesome gimmick and there isn't anything really broken about it since it almost never happens in real matches. discuss. |
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09/12/2010, 10:21 PM
Post: #5
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How about no spammy down smash? 
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09/12/2010, 10:33 PM
Post: #6
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u think its spammy? in a bad way? mach tornado is "spammy", falco's lasers and pika's thunder jolt can be "spammy" so by comparison i don't see what's wrong with sonic's dsmash as it is .
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09/12/2010, 10:46 PM
(This post was last modified: 09/12/2010 10:46 PM by Isaac.)
Post: #7
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Just cause others have spammy stuff =/= makes other spammy stuff okay.
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09/12/2010, 10:51 PM
Post: #8
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of course it does LOL. no seriously tho, i was trying to find out what was wrong with it according to him. i may be a bit biased but i thought that even though it can be spammy that it really wasn't a big deal.
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09/12/2010, 11:33 PM
Post: #9
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I don't really see it as an amazingly big deal, but i'm not familiar with sonic either.
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09/29/2010, 10:56 AM
Post: #10
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at most it can get really annoying if done randomly, i guess.
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01/06/2011, 02:51 PM
(This post was last modified: 01/06/2011 02:53 PM by KojinSagara.)
Post: #11
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_vsKw2n9Us take a look at this build someone made its got nice ideas for moves like his nair (maybe dair) and what you can do after homing attack., plus i like the change to the jog animation. im not advocating everything, only a few details. what do you think if the moves i mentioned where added? i think it would be funny if side b in the air made him do the airdash glitch lol |
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01/06/2011, 07:08 PM
Post: #12
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well backrooms , i really like changing animation,why don't change them? just the attacks? that sonic psa should be sonic minus(but need fixes in tilt attacks) |
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01/07/2011, 01:55 AM
Post: #13
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Not to rip on the person who made that psa, but a lot of those animations look awfully shoddy or ripped from other characters for no reason. Dair looked neat and the Bair change would make it fulfill its role better than now, especially combined with the move's natural disjoint. Other than that though, I think it would be best for the BR to try to contain Sonic changes within his already in-game moveset.
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01/07/2011, 09:10 PM
Post: #14
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I dunno, I thought Wave was one of the more advanced PSA'ers out there. Stuff like the nair and dair are the type of stuff that should be added. The "hold down a" moves are not really that great, but there were several good ideas in there to work off of. If the backroom wants. |
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01/07/2011, 10:52 PM
Post: #15
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By shoddy animations, I meant U-smash, dash attack, uair, and fair in particular. They looked like a glitchy median between Fox and Lucario.
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01/08/2011, 12:28 AM
Post: #16
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That's true. The Up-Smash looks like trash. I still like the nair and dair. |
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01/13/2011, 01:15 AM
Post: #17
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yeah im really liking nair. more hits and hold A to make it bounce off the ground. cool stuff.
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01/13/2011, 05:12 PM
Post: #18
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(07/08/2010 02:52 PM)KojinSagara Wrote: 2: Make Sonic say "Here I'll Show you!" or some kinda cool phrase during his spin dash charge (Down B). so that it doesn't get too annoying, only have it happen once he reaches maximum charge. I agree with pretty much everything in the OP, but if you're going to give sonic more SFX, you can't be saying "don't make it to annoying" because it's freaking Sonic. Considering that he has the frame advantage to do part of a taunt mid-combo if you're so inclined, he can't get more annoying anyway. Not that I'm complaining! I love it! Anyway, about the video: I think most of Sonic's moves should remain fundamentally Sonic's moves: replacing his animations with animations from other characters makes him no longer really sonic. Not that his, say, dair doesn't need a bit of tweaking, but replacing a bad move with a hitbox modification of someone else's move just doesn't seem right to me. (The nair seems pretty sweet, though, as it still remains fundamentally Sonic.) Also, I like his minus smash attacks just the way they are (especially usmash. Delicious semi-spikes are delicious.) That said, the B move modifications, while perhaps a bit too crazy good, are certainly worth considering over Sonic's current set. One of the biggest disappointments in Brawl was Sonic's B moves being so similar and so lame, and I think changes to the extreme shown in the video are needed in his forward or down-b (though not necessarily any of the changes shown.) |
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01/13/2011, 06:55 PM
Post: #19
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Wow, the nair and dair are really cool... being able to bounce of the ground in particular is interesting and unique... it'd be cool if this one of those moves were added and on top of it you could cancel the move into an attack after bouncing off the ground... Also, if dair only were to be taken, it'd be nice to see it more controllable like the nair in the video rather than it going straight down. Also, I realize that the side B was a bit crazy, but if you added it and maybe made it so you could only jump out of it or come to a semi laggy halt (and the jump would keep his momentum, and in other words I'm saying you can't attack out of it on the ground and while you can jump out of it, you are sent flying and will likely have to come back from off stage), then I think the grounded version would be cool and not OP (maybe?). Also the aerial version wouldn't be too bad if you could only do it once in the air and it had low damage and knockback. It'd be pretty cool if the knockback was upwards and the move was jump cancelable, in which case decent knockback growth would be a good idea moreso as an nerf so it doesn't combo at all percents. I'm pretty sure I'd have to switch mains if all that happened... hope these ideas don't sound too ridiculous 
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01/21/2011, 04:04 AM
Post: #20
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yeah so far out side of the Up B's spring staying out longer, sonic's B moves don't look too much different. I really would like to see the idea for nair implemented because it does make sense for sonic. i'd probably also suggest to add a few more frames of invincibility on the hop of side b, it then becomes a more counter move, and maybe sonic wont get raped by projectile spam as much. i hope the minus dudes see that this thread isn't dead yet, there are some decent ideas here... |
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