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Zelda-List potentially done.
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11/15/2009, 04:52 PM
(This post was last modified: 01/17/2010 05:28 PM by RayKalm.)
Post: #1
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I'll be updating the OPs as information comes in. This thread should be used for ideas and testing results for Zelda. Videos are appreciated. Proposed General Changes Dair against grounded opponent->thunderstorm, no sourspot Dins angle 35, explosion size up, no specialfall in the air Nair kb and IASA into aerial. Nair windbox drags opponents in, damage per hit +1 Naryu's Love gives a slight momentum boost, larger hiboxes that last until the animation is over. Invincibility starts first frame, ends when hitboxes do. Damage per hit +2 Uair explosion sweetspot power up slightly, to either side a good direction a disjoint that is weaker (planar). Fair traces a Z with explosions as a strong hitbox. (Z KICK) Bair cancels its first LK animation as soon as the strong hitbox fades into a second bair. upB: half startup, double range, last hitbox hits harder and lasts for the full duration of the cooldown. Startup has reflect properties. Regains jump, does not go into specialfall. Usmash windbox drags in, slightly more damage/shield damage Ftilt hitbox stays out really long, has two hitboxes in the air behind Zelda. Jab hitbox has longer range, does more damage, and capes projectiles and characters. Has another hitbox which does 5% damage with no hitstun about half of BF away. Utilt hitbox stays out really long, can be jump canceled about halfway into the endlag. Startup down slightly, damage up. Has another, weaker spike hitbox in front of and beneath Zelda. Up throw has more hitstun so it can chain into aerials better, damage up, KBG down Down throw has increased damage and hitstun, and sends opponents behind her at a 100 degree angle. Back throw has same KB as Ness' + More damage Forward throw has small growth but high base KB and respectable damage (18 or so) Grab speed up to frame 5 Dash attack has crazy momentum boost, and is cancelable into grab after first 5 frames. |
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11/20/2009, 03:57 AM
(This post was last modified: 11/20/2009 03:59 AM by Bionic.)
Post: #2
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How should Zelda interact with shiek? Should we make them interact or ignore the relation and break them differently? If we do the latter, should we swap out DownB? I think the key to this is Din's fire. Break dins, and we break zelda. |
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11/20/2009, 03:22 PM
(This post was last modified: 11/21/2009 10:25 PM by Spongejordan123.)
Post: #3
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Dins should have half the startup/endlag and move twice as fast through the air Jab should have 6 frames of startup and be flower element (it should stay on longer than it does in BBrawl) Ftilt should be just like it is in BBrawl down b should be just as fast as it is in Melee grab should have as much startup/endlag as average grabs do pummel should be flower element and be faster dthrow should have less knockback bthrow should kill Nayru's love should have invincibility frames from frame 4 until the hitbox ends to be honest, I think that all of zelda's magic attacks should be flower element. This would help her rack up damage (her main weakness) a lot better. |
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11/22/2009, 02:10 PM
Post: #4
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I think we have two choices for the Lightning Kicks (or mix them both): A) bigger sweetspot B) smaller sweetspot, but higher damage and knockback |
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![[Image: brawlx.png]](http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2083/brawlx.png)
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11/22/2009, 06:10 PM
Post: #5
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-Usmash should pretty much always shield poke. -Fsmash should have its hitbox linger slightly longer, and act weird. -Sweetspots on lightning kicks easier to hit with (slightly disjointed?) -Din's fire animation speed x3, doesn't send into specialfall; fireball moves 2x as fast and explodes very quickly. -Naryu's love has invincibility as long as the hitbox is out, startup is lowered (c-c-c-c-combo breaker) Still don't know what to do about shiek. |
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11/23/2009, 01:16 PM
(This post was last modified: 11/23/2009 01:16 PM by zain.)
Post: #6
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Same sweetspots, but the sweetspots stay active for the entire time the move is out like in Melee so they're super easy to land. I don't think other buffs to the kicks are necessary with this lol.
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11/26/2009, 02:45 PM
Post: #7
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Naryu's Love should have more hitbox and should be x2 longer. Up smash should be x1.5 longer but as fast as in brawl+. a bit bigger sweetspot. Downsmash should have more knockback. |
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11/26/2009, 03:38 PM
(This post was last modified: 11/26/2009 03:45 PM by ds22.)
Post: #8
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(11/20/2009 03:22 PM)Red X Wrote: Dins should have half the startup/endlag and move twice as fast through the air Dins. One idea would be to slow it down a bit, let Zelda out of the animation while it hasn't exploded so that she can actually catch up with her traveling ball of fire, release b = explode fire, and Zelda can follow up appropriately/combo into the dins appropriately. Quote:Jab should have 6 frames of startup and be flower element (it should stay on longer than it does in BBrawl) 0 knockback, have it combo into dtilt, grab, dsmash, usmash, utilt, etc. Quote:Ftilt should be just like it is in BBrawl I would actually prefer it be made into a kill move, not changing frame data... Quote:pummel should be flower element and be faster Oh, **** yes. Quote:Nayru's love should have invincibility frames from frame 4 until the hitbox ends Change the trajectory straight up for uair shenanigans (11/22/2009 02:10 PM)tsunami70875 Wrote: I think we have two choices for the Lightning Kicks (or mix them both): Make the sourspot safe on hit... Slightly up the damage and knockback on the sweetspot... definitely don't make the sweetspot smaller. (11/22/2009 06:10 PM)The Cadet Wrote: -Usmash should pretty much always shield poke. O_O Quote:-Fsmash should have its hitbox linger slightly longer, and act weird. I personally hate the fsmash animation, so I would be happy if it were replaced. W/e. Quote:-Naryu's love has invincibility as long as the hitbox is out, startup is lowered (c-c-c-c-combo breaker) Yes. Quote:Still don't know what to do about shiek. I personally want to see them as separate characters. Maybe we could have a vote? If we were to change down-B we could have it be a neutered version of her final smash. Also I think Zelda should have way more air mobility. |
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11/26/2009, 08:44 PM
Post: #9
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My ideas: Smashes: - USmash has windboxes and hitboxes on either side of her that suck opponents into her - FSmash has a slightly larger hitbox - Her DSmash works like Fox's DSmash; Relatively low damage but high horizontal knockback - All Smashes deal alot of Shield damage Specials: - Both first and second hits of the UB spike and deal more damage - Din's Fire is faster and more damaging, KB is already perfect for juggling - DB doesn't change her into Sheik (Independent chars. FTW) *insert good idea here for replacement* - NB has a larger graphic and hitboxes + Less end lag + Hitboxes last longer - All charging animations have windboxes Tilts: - F-tilt and all variations have better range + More damage - D-tilt always trips if hit at the foot - U-tilt has windboxes that suck in opponents + slightly larger hitboxes Aerials: - Nair has strong windboxes above and below her and weaker ones on either side of her. The bubble above blows the foe behind her and the one below her knocks the enemy to the front of her and the ones on either side suck the enemy into her - Fair's sweetspot stays longer, but has nerfed KB (Long live the Knee!). The Sourspot does more damage and knockback - Bair's sweetspot doesn't stay out as long and has a lot of KB and damage. She holds her foot out there for 50 frames after the sweetspot hitbox disappears so she has a good GTFO move - Dair's sweetspot lasts longer and has less end lag - Uair has more start up lag but deals great damage y KB Grabs: - Pummel is faster and deals 2% per hit - Up throw has more hitstun so it can chain into aerials better - Down throw is now her best move because it deals a ton of damage for a grab and has a fair amount of hitstun so it can chain easier - Back throw has same KB as Ness' + More damage - Forward throw is nerfed to a GTFO move with small growth but high base KB and respectable damage Attributes: - 2nd jump is higher - She falls slower - She has a little better air mobility - Run speed is faster - Original Dash is slower - Fast walk is faster - She automatically begins to struggle in water |
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12/04/2009, 12:58 PM
(This post was last modified: 12/04/2009 12:59 PM by Bionic.)
Post: #10
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Comments to all of this in bold.Quote:LKs always sweetspot for 50% Guy doesn't know what he's doing lol What should we do with the transformation? I say lose it. Mr. Eh Wrote:1. UpB needs to come out faster. Like, 2x as fast. Since we don't want to change the entire move itself, speeding the move up by 2x will make Zelda's recovery better. Faster, stronger, longer, no freefall. Gotcha. wat@beam From the Zelda boards. (11/26/2009 08:44 PM)thanyou Wrote: My ideas: I still see a problem with zelda though. What makes her "ZOMFG"? What's makes her special? What turns this from a general buff into something new for Zelda? What makes the new zelda special? |
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12/04/2009, 03:34 PM
(This post was last modified: 12/04/2009 03:54 PM by Spongejordan123.)
Post: #11
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making all of her magical attacks flower element would make her unique while also dealing with her weakness in getting her opponents to kill%s.
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12/04/2009, 05:27 PM
Post: #12
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Din's Fire just screams "break me please", so we should probably pay extra attention to it. What if it was aim/controllable like the Nikita, but, well, better. |
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12/04/2009, 06:27 PM
Post: #13
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Dair against grounded opponent->thunderstorm Dins angle 35, explosion size up, no specialfall in the air Nair, nB IASA into fair, bair, etc Uair explosion sweetspot power up slightly, to either side a good direction a disjoint that is weaker (planar) Fair traces a Z with explosions as a strong hitbox. Bair cancels its first LK animation as soon as the strong hitbox fades into a second bair. upB: half startup, double range, last hibox hits harder and lasts for the full duration of the cooldown. Regains jump, does not go into specialfall Usmash windbox drags in, slightly more damage/shield damage Ftilt hitbox stays out really long Jab hitbox stays out really long, has flower, does more damage Utilt hitbox stays out really long, can be jump canceled about halfway into the endlag. This is what me and Salty came up with in the IRC. FUCK YEAH, PRODUCTIVITY :V Check it out, say what you think. |
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12/04/2009, 07:45 PM
(This post was last modified: 12/04/2009 07:53 PM by Spongejordan123.)
Post: #14
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In addition to those changes, I think these should be considered -the sweetspot on dair has a tiny hitbox, It should be as large as the sourspot hitbox which is much bigger. -I think that ftilt should be like it is in bbrawl. It ends faster and the sweetspot hitbox hits opponents a little up and behind zelda which allows for aerial folllowups and it combos with utilt. -utilt should hit at a 90degree angle. -what dins really needs is more speed; it should travel through the air 1.5X as fast and have less startup/endlag. -Nayrus love needs more invincibility frames. As it is now, the invincibility frames on the startup run out 1 frame before the hitbox comes out. I think we should extend the invincibility frames until the hitbox ends. -Zelda's jab is incredibly slow. it comes out in 12 frames iirc (ganons is 7). I think that its startup lag should be cut in half Zelda also needs some throw buffs -grabs need more range -grabs should have same speed as normal grabs -bthrow should kill, fthrow should kill at higher percents than bthrow -dthrow needs less knockback so it combs into other moves. I don't understand why you want to make upb not put zelda in a fallstate. Without that wouldn't planking be too easy? |
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12/04/2009, 10:25 PM
Post: #15
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I just had an epic idea... Make zelda's dair the same as ganon's. O_O |
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12/05/2009, 02:06 AM
Post: #16
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(12/04/2009 10:25 PM)ebxoqq Wrote: I just had an epic idea... It's amazing how your idea mirror's mine and the one that was posted before this exactly. Oh wait... |
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12/05/2009, 05:36 AM
(This post was last modified: 12/05/2009 05:47 AM by ds22.)
Post: #17
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(12/05/2009 02:06 AM)SaltyKracka Wrote:(12/04/2009 10:25 PM)ebxoqq Wrote: I just had an epic idea... Quote:Perhaps it was, I never really played CONR2 :\ |
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12/05/2009, 08:33 AM
Post: #18
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Are we good? Does this list look solid? Can we move on to the next char?
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12/05/2009, 11:17 AM
Post: #19
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So what kind of character is she shaping up to be? Like, what's her main basis?
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12/05/2009, 11:56 AM
Post: #20
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Umm... Probably all-around. I mean, let's look at it-her close-up game is improved a good bit with buffed smashes, her air game has several large buffs, and her range game just got way more dangerous. Maybe a pixie even, or a rushdown, because din's still isn't great.
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