(06/04/2010 06:26 AM)TL? Wrote:  I disagree with the "we can't have things from B+ because we're the opposite" logic. If something makes the game better, then it should be considered.

(06/04/2010 02:13 AM)TSON Wrote:  The more things we add from B+ the more like B+ we become, and we lose our advantage.

(06/04/2010 07:45 PM)TSON Wrote:  

(06/04/2010 06:26 AM)TL? Wrote:  I disagree with the "we can't have things from B+ because we're the opposite" logic. If something makes the game better, then it should be considered.

But then we lose our originality

(06/04/2010 02:13 AM)TSON Wrote:  The more things we add from B+ the more like B+ we become, and we lose our advantage.

(06/04/2010 05:35 AM)Rkey Wrote:  No we're not, our advantage is that we're focusing on the game being fun.

I know, as a fact, that every single swedish player would like the game more if we had ledgecaneling.

(06/04/2010 07:50 PM)TSON Wrote:  If the game was bad, you wouldn't be here right now.

It's important to maintain our originality AND quality.

(06/04/2010 07:51 PM)Rkey Wrote:  

(06/04/2010 02:13 AM)TSON Wrote:  The more things we add from B+ the more like B+ we become, and we lose our advantage.

(06/04/2010 05:35 AM)Rkey Wrote:  No we're not, our advantage is that we're focusing on the game being fun.

I know, as a fact, that every single swedish player would like the game more if we had ledgecaneling.

Care to respond this time TSON?

(06/04/2010 07:54 PM)Karnith Wrote:  

(06/04/2010 07:50 PM)TSON Wrote:  If the game was bad, you wouldn't be here right now.

It's important to maintain our originality AND quality.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out here is what the developers would favor more: originality or quality. Would you (or any of the other developers, to be honest) rather gain originality at the expense of quality or quality at the expense of originality?

Sorry if I sound contrary or obtuse, I'm just confused.

(06/04/2010 07:57 PM)TSON Wrote:  You make it sound like originality and quality are opposites and that if you keep originality, quality goes down by result.

That's not how it works and that is not a valid question. We want both.

TSON Wrote:downside is ripping more stuff off of b+/P:M, which we cannot do

(06/04/2010 08:01 PM)TSON Wrote:  We don't want to overdo it though, what you seem to be shooting for is a B+ GCT with our pacs. We're our own, and we need to flourish as one and not leech off of other people's work.

(06/04/2010 08:03 PM)Karnith Wrote:  

(06/04/2010 07:57 PM)TSON Wrote:  You make it sound like originality and quality are opposites and that if you keep originality, quality goes down by result.

That's not how it works and that is not a valid question. We want both.

In this case, though, the two have been defined as opposites. You said that the

TSON Wrote:downside is ripping more stuff off of b+/P:M, which we cannot do

which would mean that implementing ledge cancelling is an improvement in quality at the expense of originality.

Or do you have other reasons that ledge cancelling is a bad idea? I honestly don't know much about how it would be implemented in Brawl+. Are there problems with it?

(06/04/2010 08:17 PM)TSON Wrote:  Two of the most noticeable and important things that piss off casuals.

You're asking for things for the competitive community without thinking about the casuals. And that is why we agreed NASL has no place in this game. It is also big reason, along with originality of our engine, why we don't want hitlag lowered. Ledge canceling is up to a vote between people, a clean vote, with people who actually PLAY minus and are SEPARATE PEOPLE -.-

(06/02/2010 11:33 PM)TSON Wrote:  downside is ripping more stuff off of b+/P:M, which we cannot do

(06/04/2010 07:57 PM)TSON Wrote:  Fun comes with any good game. It's not a specific focus of the project but instead a very crucial byproduct.

And this "every single swedish player" exaggerated group of people are all competitive players, and we need to appeal to casuals as well at the same time, as I have stated many times.

Quote: downside is ripping more stuff off of b+/P:M, which we cannot do

(06/04/2010 08:17 PM)TSON Wrote:  Two of the most noticeable and important things that piss off casuals.

You're asking for things for the competitive community without thinking about the casuals. And that is why we agreed NASL has no place in this game. It is also big reason, along with originality of our engine, why we don't want hitlag lowered. Ledge canceling is up to a vote between people, a clean vote, with people who actually PLAY minus and are SEPARATE PEOPLE -.-

(06/04/2010 08:21 PM)Karnith Wrote:  

(06/04/2010 08:17 PM)TSON Wrote:  Two of the most noticeable and important things that piss off casuals.

You're asking for things for the competitive community without thinking about the casuals. And that is why we agreed NASL has no place in this game. It is also big reason, along with originality of our engine, why we don't want hitlag lowered. Ledge canceling is up to a vote between people, a clean vote, with people who actually PLAY minus and are SEPARATE PEOPLE -.-

Do we have a big problem with sock puppeteering here?

And on topic, I suppose, is this where we chime in on our opinions on ledge cancelling? Because as long as it doesn't screw anything up, I'd be fine with adding something that makes it easier to continue combos.

(06/05/2010 01:44 AM)Bleck Wrote:  guys wah brawl- is so shitty you guys I can't even ledgecancel it is ruining my enjoyment of the game

(06/05/2010 04:50 AM)Rkey Wrote:  Thanks Bleck, you said just what I wanted to say. A person saying what you said does not exist.

Giving a player more options does not reduce the overall enjoyability of a game. A casual player has no need for ledgecanceling, and the "serious" player will be able to enjoy the game further.

I'm not voting for NASL, that have a huge impat on the game that I don't want. Ledgecanceling though? No impact at all, except for more room to, for those who want to, actually get good at the game.

(06/02/2010 11:33 PM)TSON Wrote:  downside is ripping more stuff off of b+/P:M, which we cannot do

I disagree, what if the world would have been thinking about this when it came to democracy, health care, schools, etc.? If it's good, why not copy it? I really see no reason.

(06/04/2010 07:57 PM)TSON Wrote:  Fun comes with any good game. It's not a specific focus of the project but instead a very crucial byproduct.

And this "every single swedish player" exaggerated group of people are all competitive players, and we need to appeal to casuals as well at the same time, as I have stated many times.

I like how you call it exaggarated, like 70% of all the players in sweden plays brawl-, and all of us are very competetive.

And really, would it ruin fun for casual players if we added ledgecanceling?


Your main arguments have been that it would be ripping off brawl+ and that we would loose originality. Why do you think Brawl+ added it from their game? Because it gives room for technical development. Where they afraid that they were copying from melee? No, because it's a good game mechanic and it shouldn't be left out.

Loosing originality? Nope, very few of our characters have the same moves as they do in the other games, few will ever say that Brawl- is "pretty similar" to the other hacks, and those who do it will not do so because we both have ledgecanceling.

(06/05/2010 05:28 AM)table Wrote:  

Quote: downside is ripping more stuff off of b+/P:M, which we cannot do

Imo we should REDUCE the hitstun, to levels lower than Brawl, so as to distinguish ourselves further from the other projects!!

I agree with Rkey's post completely.

(06/05/2010 10:26 AM)Wiscus Wrote:  Being able to ledge-cancel would be lovely. Adds in more options for the people playing seriously.
Casual players of course can completely ignore it, if the code is not buggy and doesn't interfere with anything else I don't see why it cant be added.
Adding it in does not take away from brawl- intents nor originality in my onion. I'm pretty sure no one will ever confuse - with +

(06/05/2010 04:50 AM)Rkey Wrote:  A casual player has no need for ledgecanceling, and the "serious" player will be able to enjoy the game further.

(06/05/2010 04:50 AM)Rkey Wrote:  Why do you think Brawl+ added it from their game? Because it gives room for technical development. Where they afraid that they were copying from melee? No, because it's a good game mechanic and it shouldn't be left out.

(06/05/2010 01:13 PM)gangstakirby Wrote:  Rkey, Im trying to get recording equipment and once i do you guysll see how bad planking still is.... the only good solution is nasl.