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Footstool Jump feels awkward.
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07/03/2012, 04:20 AM
(This post was last modified: 07/03/2012 04:29 AM by RomeDogg.)
Post: #1
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Ok so Footstool did interfere with Gameplay correct? So therefore it was put with the up taunt correct? I admire Project M making it so it didn't interfere with regular GamePlay. That is so important but I don't think anyone really thinks about hitting the up taunt to jump off of someones head. Heck I dont think they think of using any button except jump for that matter. So my idea would be to simply make it so you can select footstool to be used for one of your standard jump buttons that aren't used often. For example I jump with Y almost everytime but I wavedash with x all the time and rarely jump with x. I never ever think about using my taunt to jump with so therefore the Footstool jump is never implemented into my gameplay and the timing would be off most of the time if i tried to use a non jump button. I would however use Footstool on occasion if it could be added to my X jump while my x jump still maintained the standard jump command. So when people are setting up thier controls in Project M it would be so nice if there could be two jump selections. One being simply jump and the other being jump/Footstool. Does anyone else agree with me? Also would that be possible for later versions of PM?
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![[Image: Rome2.png]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a9/RomeDogg/SSBM/Rome2.png)
![[Image: Smk_bowser_1st_animated_jp.gif]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a9/RomeDogg/SSBM/Smk_bowser_1st_animated_jp.gif)
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07/03/2012, 04:40 AM
Post: #2
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I think it should be kept as is for the sake of consistency. As well, having footstool on Utaunt makes sure that a footstool is a very intentional action that requires the user to take their thumb off the analog. That makes it more impressive, and sort of a universal taunt kill. The point of a taunt kill is that it's impractical. Allowing players to remap to a more practical button makes it less impressive in all circumstance. |
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07/03/2012, 04:52 AM
Post: #3
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I use it with Bowser and Link.
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![[Image: tumblr_mcgw1usNa61ri5c15o1_250.gif]](http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcgw1usNa61ri5c15o1_250.gif)
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07/03/2012, 05:11 AM
(This post was last modified: 07/03/2012 05:15 AM by RomeDogg.)
Post: #4
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Well I think it should be more practical. Cause it could make for some more interesting combos and recovery options. Also kept as is? Its personal preference where it is the the same options already in place should remain so it wouldn't effect consistency. I wasn't saying anything about them removing the option of having it share a button with up taunt at all. I was simply asking they consider adding the option to make it share a jump/footstool spot while still having a regular jump spot or two available at the same time. As for me myself if it was sharing the x as also a jump i would never accidentally use footstool and it would be intentional. Cause like I said I absolutely never jump with x I only wavedash with it.
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07/03/2012, 05:23 AM
Post: #5
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I never really have this problem since I always just jump with L now. It's just something you'll have to get use to. |
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07/03/2012, 06:21 AM
(This post was last modified: 07/03/2012 06:22 AM by Arkimbald.)
Post: #6
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Sometimes things should be unintuitive. But, I don't approve of remapping anyway. I feel so weird arguing against control remapping, 'cause I just started working on a game that lets you change the input command for each move. It feels like I'm contradicting myself. I really need to figure out my stance on this. So, I sat here and thought about it for 30 minutes while eating a salad, and I think remapping should be looked at on a case-by-case basis. I'm cool with remapping in my current project because it's a singleplayer RPG/platformer. The remapping is part of the character/player development. I disapprove of remapping in smash because it's a fighting game. The homogeneity of control helps ensure players are all competing within the same environment. The homogeneity of environment/control is one of the pros of console games over PC. But hey, Brawl already has button remapping. I believe the PMBR once said, "nothing from Brawl is sacred." That's not implying I think they should remove it, I'm using that to show it's existence in Brawl does not necessitate it is a good thing. Anyway, it's beneficial to keep controls roughly the same for everyone. My father gave me a Stratocaster he got on the cheap. At the time, I had already been playing guitar for two years. The Stratocaster was left-handed. I am not left-handed. My other guitars are not left handed. I decided to learn to play ambidextrously. Here's how it went: I couldn't do it, so I got the nut reversed. The whole thing was a waste of my time, and now- due to the shape of the body- I cannot reach the higher frets. I'll say that Melee doesn't have the most intuitive control scheme, but changing it isn't necessarily an improvement. Players might change their controls to make a particular AT easier, and later find new more valuable AT that's nearly impossible with their control scheme. Until they relearn a more ideal scheme and forget the previous, they are handicapping themselves. Now one might say, "nothing stops you from learning/using the same scheme as your opponents," or, "it's part of the metagame!" Well, that's bollocks. My professors tell me that Street Fighter is balanced because you can pick the same character as your opponent. That's dumb. A character can take a very very long time to learn. Some players lose because they chose to learn the wrong character. Control schemes aren't as hard to learn as another character, but that's still time you could use for learning something else. TL;DR: Don't mind me, just arguing with myself. |
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07/03/2012, 06:35 AM
Post: #7
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^ A control scheme doesn't enhance a players skill, it only caters to their comfort. Anyone can use any control scheme that they feel is the best, and still very much lose to the default. There's been no extreme evidence that it actually does drastically effect gameplay. If control scheme really did matter then Fanatiq in UMvC3 would never win being a "pad warrior" nor would Wolfkrone in SSF4 AE since he's also a "pad warrior." Many PC based FPS leagues would also ban the use of computer mice such as the Razer Naga, or ban altering the keys. But they don't because it's silly that people shouldn't be comfortable with the way they play. |
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07/03/2012, 06:54 AM
Post: #8
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Bah, I knew the pad thing would come up. I don't think different controllers is analogous with different control schemes, 'cause, well, the wiimote and 360 controllers are things that exist. My point wasn't that remapping will give anyone an advantage- actually, it was the opposite. Some players might never feel comfortable with their controls, because not all the things they want to do will be comfortable. Or maybe they'll remap to make an AT easier and thus overuse it. |
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07/03/2012, 07:14 AM
Post: #9
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I am unsure whether you you think it would be a good thing to have or not B.W. or whether you are supporting the idea or against it. Arkimbald I am not implying that everyone should change their move input buttons to whatever another persons settings are. Also if it were about how everyone should have the standard Smash button scheme then if you think about it footstool was introduced into smash as being placed on a jump button. The team was right that something had to be done about this no doubt because no one wants to randomly jump off of an opponents head when they are attempting to do something different. The thing is if you could maybe just connect the Footstool to whatever button you want regardless of whatever other command the button would share, Specials, taunts, jump, attacks, shield whatever it maybe that would also be cool. Although to me it only really seems ideal that it would be on the control pad or on a jump button so it wont interfere with other gameplay mechanics but thats just me so hey whatever floats your boats, everyone is different. Although this is not a FPS I always felt it was easier to transition into playing a new shooter by changing the commands to about the same as a shooter I am very familiar with. That way I wouldn't make a million stupid errors until I got used to the game. If you couldn't change the scheme imagine going back to the shooter you had to change your muscle memory for and having to repeat the process to change it back.(even though it is very possible) I also find the same concept applies when transitioning into different racing games for me. I guess I am just trying to say this concept may apply to some people and fighting games just as well. |
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07/03/2012, 12:14 PM
Post: #10
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You're saying you want a second jump command that also footstools?.. I don't think they can do that...
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07/03/2012, 02:33 PM
(This post was last modified: 07/03/2012 02:34 PM by B.W..)
Post: #11
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(07/03/2012 06:54 AM)Arkimbald Wrote: Bah, I knew the pad thing would come up. I don't think different controllers is analogous with different control schemes, 'cause, well, the wiimote and 360 controllers are things that exist. That second part is a good point, and I didn't catch that was your point. But with stuff like that it is ultimately up to the player to learn to not fall into the bad habit of overusing an AT or overusing anything at all. All part of the learning process. Also, Romedogg, I'm not really for or against it, but I do think it's not necessary to try to code something like that. It also most likely isn't possible, but I'd prefer the way it is now because when you use up-taunt you don't jump so if you miss you won't waste your double jump. |
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07/03/2012, 04:00 PM
Post: #12
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Although I still stand by my views of having more options for footstool placement for people who prefer it you make a very good point B.W. Wasting a double jump is a mistake that can cost you a stock. I should just get used to it how it as being the up taunt because even if you miss the footstool it doesn't cause you to do any game effecting command whatsoever while in the air that could screw you up or throw you off. Thanks for that slight perspective change because I didn't foresee that. So basically I won't be to bummed out if they don't change anything about its current layout I suppose.
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07/03/2012, 05:18 PM
Post: #13
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Put it to a shield button if you don't use one of them. that way it doesn't interfere with your left thumb trying to move/fastfall, or your right thumb trying to jump/attack.
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07/03/2012, 08:37 PM
Post: #14
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I didn't read anything but the OP. Why can't you just assign up/down taunt to Y?
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![[Image: fNjf9.gif]](http://i.imgur.com/fNjf9.gif)
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07/03/2012, 09:30 PM
Post: #15
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(07/03/2012 06:21 AM)Arkimbald Wrote: I disapprove of remapping in smash because it's a fighting game. The homogeneity of control helps ensure players are all competing within the same environment. The homogeneity of environment/control is one of the pros of console games over PC. This is absurdly obtuse logic, and this is coming from someone who believes steroids in Baseball and unregulated tennis racket netting are comparable. Fighting games have had button mapping as early as Street Fighter Alpha 2, if not earlier. Denying players that privilege would serve no value for the competitive value of the game. |
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07/04/2012, 01:51 AM
(This post was last modified: 07/04/2012 01:52 AM by daley2013.)
Post: #16
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^ Agreed, and I also think that footstool was SUPER dum in brawl, but project m fixed that problem without removing it. footstool is something special that is used rarely and SHOULDN'T be used everytime you jump near someone. A universal kill taunt.
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07/04/2012, 02:53 AM
Post: #17
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How about you just learn to use taunt to footstool?
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![[Image: smashmodsgimmicksmall.png]](http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r615/DrinkingFood/smashmodsgimmicksmall.png)
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07/04/2012, 04:08 AM
Post: #18
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Guys this thing has been pretty much over for a while now lol.
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07/04/2012, 07:30 AM
Post: #19
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B.W. yeah that is a good idea that way i wouldn't have to take my thumb off of the control stick but I will have to see if I don't use one of them. I know I use R alot but I think I only use L for air dodging. Sempai I can't do that because I use Y for jumping since it is close to both B and A that way things like jump cancel double shine are easier to do. I use X for jump canceled running grabs in order to do faster standing grabs and also for Wavedashing because to me it is way easier than using Y. |
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