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Bowser Information Compilation
05/28/2012, 10:41 AM (This post was last modified: 06/25/2012 02:34 PM by B.W..)
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B.W. Offline
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This thread is made for players interested in Bowser and so they can get as much info about him as possible. Yes, it's much like what Sudai is doing with Lucario, so I thank him for the idea (and the layout which I will be mostly stealing) to begin with. If anyone would like to help contribute then by all means just post whatever info you have or find in this thread. If it's highly useful or a point that people should definitely know I'll put it in. Stuff regarding match-ups will end up goiong here, but I'd prefer if you kept all match-up discussions in the Bowser Matchup Discussion thread since I'll just pull it from there. Thanks.

CONTENTS
[1.0]--General Information
[1.1]----Attributes
[1.2]----Armor
[1.2.1]----Knockback Armor
[1.2.2]----Damage Armor
[1.2.3]----Super Armor
[1.3]----Pros and Cons

[2.0]--Attacks
[2.1]----Ground Attacks
[2.1.1]------Jabs & Dash Attack
[2.1.2]------Tilts
[2.1.3]------Smashes
[2.1.4]------Wake-Up & Ledge Attacks
[2.1.5]------Grab Attacks
[2.2]----Aerial Attacks
[2.3]----Special Attacks

[3.0]--Links to check out



[1.0]--General Information
[1.1]----Attributes
Bowser's attributes compared the the rest of the cast (29 characters)

Weight: 1) Bowser [118]
Walking Speed: 29) Bowser
Running Speed: 13) Bowser
Spot Dodge: 9) Bowser [Invincible during frames 4-24 (42 frames total)]
Full Hop Height: 20) Bowser
Short Hop Height: 19-21) Bowser/Fox/Mario
Air Mobility: 17-25) King DDD/G&W/Ike/Bowser/Luigi/Marth/Pikachu/Charizard/Sonic
Running Jump Air Speed: 27-28) Bowser/Snake
Maximum Air Speed: 26-27) Bowser/Sheik
Falling Speed: 16-19) Bowser/Pikachu/Pit/Sonic
Fast-Falling Speed: 15-17) Bowser/Marth/Lucario
Jump Start-Up Speed: 29) Bowser (8 Frames)
Wavedash Rating: 8) Bowser

[1.2]----Armor
Bowser has a mechanic on many of his moves that allow him to resist the knockback and/or flinching, but not the damage, of any moves that hit him. This mechanic can simply be referred to as "Armor."

There are three different types of armor that allow Bowser has that he can take advantage of.

[1.2.1]----Knockback Armor
Knockback armor is armor that resists any attack based on how much knockback Bowser would resist at the time. Knockback Armor becomes less useful as Bowser is damaged as more damage means more knockback done.

(From Magus' original post on Armor)
Spoiler:
(05/29/2012 10:53 AM)Magus Wrote:  Type 2, depending on the KB armor threshold set and the opponent's attack, could say resist the hit at 50%, but not when at 100% when Bowser would take more knockback from the attack.

[1.2.2]----Damage Armor
Damage armor resists knockback based on how much damage an action does and the threshold of the action. If the attack Bowser is hit with while Damage Armor is in effect, anything even with the Damage Armor's resistance or lower gets snuffed, save for damage, while anything even 1% damage higher will cause Bowser to flinch or knocked back.

(From Magus' original post on Armor)
Spoiler:
(05/29/2012 10:53 AM)Magus Wrote:  Type 3 if it has a threshold of 7%, would resist all hits that do 7 damage or less regardless of knockback (would resist Zelda's u-smash even at 999% since the multihits only do 1 and last hit 4). I believe crouch, b-air, and grounded up-b (after the invincibility) are the only moves with type 3 and the rest with armor are all type 2.

[1.2.3]----Super Armor
Super Armor is armor that resists all knockback regardless of the amount of knockback or damage Bowser is hit with.

(From Magus' original post on Armor)
Spoiler:
(05/29/2012 10:53 AM)Magus Wrote:  There is armor that resists regardless of how much knockback or damage the hit does, armor that resists based on how strong the knockback of the hit is, and armor that resists based on the amount of damage the hit does. There is no single hit thing you mention. If you're within the window the armor is active it will work no matter how many times you are hit, regardless of armor type.

[1.3]----Pros and Cons
COMING SOON! (I hope)

[2.0]--Attacks
[2.1]----Ground Attacks
[2.1.1]------Jabs & Dash Attack
Jabs
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
None
Damage:
Spoiler:
Hit 1: 3-6%
Hit 2: 4-5%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA


Dash Attack
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
Knockback Armor of 71: Frames 1-9
Knockback Armor of 140: Frames 10-15
Damage:
Spoiler:
Initial Hit: 6-10%
Shockwave Hit: 4-7%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:

[2.1.2]------Tilts
Forward Tilt
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
None
Damage:
Spoiler:
8-15%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA

Up Tilt
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
None
Damage:
Spoiler:
7-13%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA

Down Tilt
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
Hit 1
Damage Armor of 7: Frames 1-8

Hit 2
None
Damage:
Spoiler:
Hit 1: 6-12%
Hit 2: 7-14%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA

[2.1.3]------Smashes
Forward Smash
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
Knockback Armor of 200: Frames 14-20
Damage:
Spoiler:
Normal: ?-25%
Charged: ?-35%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA


Up Smash
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
Knockback Armor of 71 During Charge: Intang Frame 7-9
Knockback Armor of 140: Frames 9-13
Damage:
Spoiler:
Normal Initial Hit:
Normal Shockwave Hit: 5-10%
Charged Initial Hit: 16-30%
Charged Shockwave Hit: 7-13%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA


Down Smash
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
Knockback armor of 140: Frames Frames 10-19
Damage:
Spoiler:
Hits 1-4: ?-3%
Hits 5-6: ?-3%
Hit 7: ?-10%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA


[2.1.4]------Wake-Up & Ledge Attacks
Wake-Up Attack:
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
None
Damage:
Spoiler:
?-6%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA

Ledge Attack
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
None
Damage:
Spoiler:
Normal: ?-8%
Weak: ?-10%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA


[2.1.5]------Grab Attacks
Pummel:
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
None
Damage:
Spoiler:
?-4%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA

Forward Throw:
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
None
Damage:
Spoiler:
?-10%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA

Backward Throw:
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
None
Damage:
Spoiler:
?-10%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA

Down Throw:
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
None
Damage:
Spoiler:
?-16%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA

Up Throw
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
Knockback Armor of 71: Frames 21-50
Damage:
Spoiler:
Hits 1-8: 1%
Hit 9: 2%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA

[2.2]----Aerial Attacks
Neutral Aerial:
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
Knockback Armor of 200: Frames 7-11
Damage:
Spoiler:
?-13%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA

Forward Aerial:
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
None
Damage:
Spoiler:
?-16%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA

Backward Aerial:
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
Damage Armor of 7: Frames 9-12
Damage:
Spoiler:
?-17%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA

Up Aerial:
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
None
Damage:
Spoiler:
?-18%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA

Down Aerial
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
Knockback Armor of 71: Frames 14-40
Damage:
Spoiler:
Hits 1-9: 1-2%
Shockwave Hit : 5%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA


[2.3]----Special Attacks
Fire Breath (B)
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
None
Damage:
Spoiler:
Close: 1-2%
Far: 1%
Bite: 2-3%
NOTE: Every part of Fire Breath scales the other part, so hitting with the far fire scales close fire and bite to 1 and 2.
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA


Koopa Klaw (Side-B)
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
Knockback Armor of 200: Frames 4-12
Damage:
Spoiler:
Grab: 0%
Forward Throw: 11-20%
Backward Throw: 9-15%
Scratch: 7-12%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA


Whirling Fortress (Up-B)
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
Damage Armor of 7 (Grounded only): Frames 8-18
Damage:
Spoiler:
Initial Ground Hit: 8-13%
Mid Spin Ground Hit: 4-8%
End Spin Ground Hit: 3-6%
Aerial Hit 1: ?-10%
Aerial Hits 2-6: ?-3%
Aerial Hits 7-11: 1-2%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA


Bowser Bomb (Down-B)
Frames:
Spoiler:
Total: TBA
Hitbox: TBA
Armor:
Spoiler:
Knockback Armor of ?? Through the entire moved +4 frames
Damage:
Spoiler:
Falling Hit: ?-25%
Shockwave Hit: 10%
Hitbox:
Spoiler:
TBA

[3.0]--Links to check out
--Bowser's Crow/Crouch Armor vs. Character's Attacks ~DrinkingFood's thread with information on what attacks are stopped by Bowser's Crawling Damage Armor (Crawl Armor)

If anyone has anything they want to add to any part of this go ahead and say so and if it's big enough I'll make it happen.

Also other sections will open up over time, this is just the basic starting layout. Currently only overly helpful to newer Bowser players.
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05/29/2012, 09:35 AM
Post: #2
Monk Offline
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"Hyper Armor" ??
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05/29/2012, 10:53 AM (This post was last modified: 05/29/2012 11:00 AM by Magus.)
Post: #3
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There is armor that resists regardless of how much knockback or damage the hit does, armor that resists based on how strong the knockback of the hit is, and armor that resists based on the amount of damage the hit does. There is no single hit thing you mention. If you're within the window the armor is active it will work no matter how many times you are hit, regardless of armor type.

Type 2, depending on the KB armor threshold set and the opponent's attack, could say resist the hit at 50%, but not when at 100% when Bowser would take more knockback from the attack. Type 3 if it has a threshold of 7%, would resist all hits that do 7 damage or less regardless of knockback (would resist Zelda's u-smash even at 999% since the multihits only do 1 and last hit 4). I believe crouch, b-air, and grounded up-b (after the invincibility) are the only moves with type 3 and the rest with armor are all type 2.

I would just call type 1 super armor, type 2 KB armor, and type 3 damage armor.
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05/29/2012, 09:24 PM (This post was last modified: 06/01/2012 04:10 AM by B.W..)
Post: #4
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^ Thanks for clarifying, I just wrote it up based one what I'd noticed and basic fighting game knowledge. Once I get on a real computer I'll fix the post up.

@Monk: In traditional fighting games there's two different types of armored attacks. Hyper Armor can absorb an infinite amount of moves where normally Super Armor can only absorb a certain number of moves.
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06/01/2012, 04:41 AM
Post: #5
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UPDATE
-Changed the "Super Armor" section to just "Armor."
-Changed the sub-sections under "Armor" from "Light Armor" and "Heavy Armor" to "Knockback Armor" and "Damage Armor" and added a "Super Armor" section
-Changed many of the armor types in the attacks from "Heavy" to "Super."
-Changed most of the armor types that said "None" to "?" since I feel that most need to be retested now that I'm more aware of the different armor types.

Thanks again to Magus who has given me more detailed information on Bowser's armor.
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06/01/2012, 04:47 AM (This post was last modified: 06/01/2012 04:55 AM by DrinkingFood.)
Post: #6
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Koopa Klaw and his smash attacks have Heavy (Knockback) armor, not super armor. I don't think Bowser HAS any super armor, at high enough damages/high enough knockback attacks he can be knocked out of any of those attacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx49ot85IT4
This video says "super armor" but I think it's a typo, as they later show him being knocked out of it at higher percents, meaning that it would be the heavy, knockback based armor. They might have changed something, but I highly doubt it because that's a big change that would have been in the changelist.

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06/01/2012, 04:55 AM
Post: #7
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Any time I've used Koopa Klaw it's resisted a shit ton of stuff at high damage even coming from Ike's F-smash. I'm not entirely sure about the other moves.

I need to learn to read the PSA or something to get 100% accurate data on stuff.
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06/01/2012, 04:57 AM (This post was last modified: 06/01/2012 04:59 AM by DrinkingFood.)
Post: #8
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Yeah it's still really good armor nonetheless. It might as well be super armor- hitting him out of it is fairly situational as it requires both high damage AND a strong attack, and normally when he's at high damage, he can just be killed with a slightly weaker attack that's easier to hit with, but won't knock him out of heavy armor given they hit on those frames.
Also, you may want to consider linking to my Bowser crouch/crawl armor thread as it has an (almost) complete list of what attacks Bowser's light armor can absorb. Moderately useful, I'm sure nobody will mind you linking to it Tongue

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06/01/2012, 05:04 AM
Post: #9
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Yeah, I planned on it, I just hadn't gotten around to linking stuff yet.

After making the thread I was all like "god so much info... FFFF"

Not an excuse anymore. Serious time. I'm linking it now.
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06/01/2012, 05:35 AM
Post: #10
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Awesomeness. Thanks for the thread btw. We need somebody who understands brawlbox to get in here with some framedata and pics tho

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06/01/2012, 10:40 AM (This post was last modified: 06/01/2012 08:06 PM by Monk.)
Post: #11
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How to take hitbox pictures in BrawlBox. Now go download brawlbox and PSA to get hitbox data pics. Sorry for not removing the parts about getting stuff from the SVN. The pastebin was just a direct copy of a post in the BR forum.
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06/01/2012, 05:51 PM
Post: #12
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I'll get on that tomorrow, I've got stuff to do tonight that requires 6 hours of my time to destroy people at P:M
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06/12/2012, 09:09 PM
Post: #13
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Dash attack - kb armor of 71 starting frame 1, kb armor of 140 starting frame 10, armor ends frame 15
dtilt1 - damage armor of 7 starting frame 1 ends frame 8
fsmash - kb armor of 200 frame 14-20
usmash - kb armor of 71 during charge, intang frame 7-9, kb armor of 140 frame 9-13
dsmash - kb armor of 140 frame 10-29
nair - kb armor of 200 frame 7-11
bair - damage armor of 7 frame 9-12
dair - kb armor of 71 frame 14-40
uthrow - kb armor of 71 frame 21-50
grounded upb - damage armor of 7 frame 8-18
downb - kb armor the entire time until landing + 4 frames
grounded sideb - kb armor of 200 frame 4-12


I went through psa and quickly wrote these down. The smashes do not include the startup animation. The timing of the armor may not be completely accurate as I was just looking at it quickly, but it's very close.
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06/12/2012, 09:24 PM
Post: #14
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Thank you Mr. StandardToaster. I'll add these in a moment.
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06/25/2012, 02:44 PM (This post was last modified: 06/25/2012 02:47 PM by B.W..)
Post: #15
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UPDATE
--Decided to show information differently. The main post is now full of "spoilers" but the result is it shows more information without having to scroll through the entire post unable to find your info (I hope)

--Added more specific data on armor, thanks to the help of StandardToaster.

So I've been away from adding to this too much lately because on top of being busy with life, I've been playing more than testing. I'm still open to suggestions with the layout, and definitely open to help on getting information.

I'm working on learning BrawlBox so I can get visible frame data for hitboxes and whatnot, the biggest issue though is that I'm missing a lot of the Fit(Character)00 files, so if someone could also give me a link to that with all the characters, that'd be stupendous.

Any help is welcome, and I will update the OP when information is given, and when I have the time. It's not much to look at now, but I think it will be much more helpful once we get some of those gifs up.

Also, StandardToaster, or anyone really, if you could explain how to measure "Knockback Armor" that would be awesome. What I mean is when a move has Knockback Armor of 200, explain how to measure the numbers of that "200." ...If that makes sense.
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06/25/2012, 05:42 PM
Post: #16
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I'm not entirely sure as to how knockback armor works. I think it means that the move that hits you has to have enough kb to give you X amount of frames of hitstun.
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07/05/2012, 11:04 AM
Post: #17
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Wow, how did I not see this post sooner?

Is there a way to see base power for knockback? Also, I dunno if you know, but how does the game calculate knockback power with damage?

It's cool if you don't know, but it'd be cool to get that info since It'd slightly help with matchups for Bowser possibly. If not for other people then for me personally lol.
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07/05/2012, 11:42 AM
Post: #18
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You can see the knockback values using PSA.
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