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Pokemon Trainer
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12/26/2009, 09:22 AM
Post: #61
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PLEASE LISTEN! If you force the player to switch, it sucks. If it's free to switch, those who want to play as all three (me) can do so, and those who only want to play as one, if they really feel like exposing the weaknesses of one pokémon fully, can do so to. You can't say that "if you don't have to switch, you wont", because that's not true. And also, if some player doesn't want to switch, why force them? There is no point at all. If we can implement the CSS with wild pokémon and PT as different chars (like brawl+), everyone would be happy. There already was a very long discussion about stamina during the creation of brawl+, and the result was clear, there is no point in stamina. Drop and move on, dicussion was cleard up wwaaaaayy back. |
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12/26/2009, 12:32 PM
(This post was last modified: 12/26/2009 12:33 PM by delbuster.)
Post: #62
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This isn't the first (or umpteenth) time I've dealt with this issue (in my case it was thoroughly discussed during BBrawl's development). Unfortunately for you and other folks, I agree with the people who have stated ... "If you don't like switching pokemon, play a different character." The switching is the unique function of Pokemon Trainer. The character is not called "Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard". Giving no incentive to switch is almost the same as splitting them up. Thankfully they auto-switch on death, but with the plan to speed up their switching, auto-switches will be much less effective in getting the player to focus on the other PT characters. Look, I don't have any say on the matter, but it is my opinion that those that want to play Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard should be made to at least put some effort into using the two other counterparts instead of basically being provided solo characters and removing any uniqueness. Hopefully the people making this will find a way to mitigate the stamina effect so at the least people can go much longer without being penalized. But removing the penalty altogether isn't a good thing. There's also the idea of rewarding people who switch, but that'll require some experimentation. In any case, you or any other person can't change my stance on this. My stance has as much merit as any other non-programmer person on this thread, but so be it. (BTW if you or anyone actually dares try and refute my OPINION, you clearly didn't read all of this and are just argumentative...) |
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12/27/2009, 12:30 PM
Post: #63
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"If you don't like switching pokemon, play a different character." That argument wont hold, as we cannot say "If you don't like Zelda, don't play as Shiek". Why not make PT a flexible character rather than one locked in place? Why would you, if you were selling ice cream, force the buyers to get both vanilla, chocolate and strawberry? Do you realize you wouldn't be earning as much money as if you gave the buyers a choice? Do you realize that PT would be a much better character if you were given a choice? The switching is indeed the unique function of the Pokémon trainer, just as the items and mushroomy kingdom are big parts of brawl. However, you don't have to use items and you don't have to play thoose stages. I want to play as all characters, what I'm worried about is those who, for example, really likes the speed of squirtle and the power of charizard, but can't stand Ivysaur, and that they, because WE think they should, have to learn to play as him as well, or face serious disadvantages. It is unfair, it is stupid, and it is not necessary. I'm sorry that I'm taking this argument harshly, but I'm too certain on my point not too. There is no sense in forcing players to use characters they don't want to use. You can count on me using all three Pokémons, and I think that most players will since they make up for each others weaknesses, but if someone wants to solo Ivy they should be allowed to. |
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12/27/2009, 05:44 PM
Post: #64
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how about the "Hold R to not change" code? when PT dies, hold down R/L to stay as the previous pokemon. it means those that want to play as a single poke can, and those that want to use all of them can, too. additionally, i'm in favor of the no stamina code rather than longer stamina as the original intent of stamina was to encourage people to switch out pokemon so they could play all of them. in practice this was a terrible idea as you had to take into account both your moves staling naturally as well as the additional staling from exhaustion. no stamina means you switch out the pokes as you need them (this, of course will make more sense once we buff ivy) instead of when your last poke becomes too weak to fight. i like to think of PT as a utility character, using each poke for different situations. to this point, the hold r code can emphasize that point (if you have a poke thats doing well, then you should be able to keep utilizing it). of course, those that like the idea of switching every time to mix up their opponent's strategy is a great idea too. it makes sense to me to have both options available to the player depending on what they want to do. now, this does mean i don't feel we need the separate poke spots on the CSS. though, with this option we can still encourage people to use their own custom CSS as the indy pokes don't work on the more creative ones. |
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12/27/2009, 06:49 PM
Post: #65
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Hold R to change is good, being able to switch on the spawning platform without falling off or at least switching while still having invincibility would be good too.
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12/27/2009, 08:07 PM
Post: #66
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Press Shield for No Swap V1.1 [Y.S., Phantom Wings, spunit262] C2816B1C 0000000C 7FA4EB78 88A3000A 54A61838 7CC33214 80C60034 80C60060 80C60068 80C60074 70C00008 41820034 80E30030 2C07001F 41A10028 2C070003 4182001C 2C070018 41820014 2C07001C 41A00010 2C170115 41820008 7CA42B78 60000000 00000000 P.Trainer Infinite Stamina: [Phantom Wings, spunit262] (1 line) 04A8BDAC 60000000 |
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12/27/2009, 09:57 PM
Post: #67
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A discovery by AA of BBrawl should be quite relevant to improving Pokemon Trainer's switching.Amazing Ampharos Wrote:Anyway, a fun experiment was successful. I tried putting all of Zelda & Sheik's files on the SD card with file replacement active, and the result was that transformation time was radically lowered (my unscientific estimate for my typical disc reader Wii is triple speed on the sparkly in-between character section which is the part where the game is actually loading). Since it's SD reading, this should be fairly disc reader independent too so slow disc reader Wiis are no longer a factor for Zelda & Sheik. I bet the same thing would work with the Pokemon Trainer too; expect much cleaner transformation mechanics in the next version just owing to this. |
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01/02/2010, 03:00 PM
Post: #68
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I've got a suggestion: Would it be possible to make it so that PT, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard are all different characters? If someone wants, they can select PT and switch. Put in longer stamina and faster switch times, then add some kind of buff (+1 across the board or something) to encourage people to play as PT. Each individual Poke will be slightly weaker, but won't have to deal with stamina and could be given a different move for their down-B Failing that, would it be possible to make it so that on death you normally don't switch, but could hold R to switch forward or L to switch back? |
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01/02/2010, 07:52 PM
(This post was last modified: 01/02/2010 07:53 PM by NeJuEr.)
Post: #69
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It isn't possible to nerf the wild pokes.
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01/02/2010, 09:56 PM
Post: #70
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(01/02/2010 07:52 PM)Beefster Wrote: It isn't possible to nerf the wild pokes. Is that in reply to me? If so, I meant that PT should continue to use the standard three pokemon. |
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01/03/2010, 01:52 PM
Post: #71
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I agree with that, but we can hold that incentive without stamina. Zelda/Sheik doesn't have stamina- why should PT?
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01/03/2010, 06:13 PM
Post: #72
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(01/03/2010 01:52 PM)Beefster Wrote: I agree with that, but we can hold that incentive without stamina. Zelda/Sheik doesn't have stamina- why should PT? If you give PT a universal buff and make the normal Pokes selectable, there's no reason that someone wouldn't select PT and stick with one single Pokemon the whole time. Then again, I suggested changing the down-B to an actual move for the individual Pokemon, so if that move is good there is incentive to play with them instead of PT. Honestly we could talk circles around each other all day about my suggestion. First we need to find out if it's actually possible to code the character like that, then we need to get some playtesting going to decide which method works best. |
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01/06/2010, 06:06 PM
Post: #73
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I'm not a pokemon trainer player, but I play with a few. My opinion may not mean much since I'm looking in from the outside, but i think it would be cool if there was no stamina, they had unique downBs (or a changeup downB that requires a condition/charge time to activate), and the pokemon still swap upon death. Ive always seen the trainers strong point as being able to keep the opponent on their toes- having them adjust to a different moveset constantly. The drawback (or appeal) is having to learn 3 movesets. If you take away the trainer part and just have Charizard, squirtle, and ivysaur, then you basically just have 3 cheezy characters in Brawl. |
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01/06/2010, 07:26 PM
Post: #74
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i think we should keep PT as a single entity (no wild pokes) but use the hold r to not switch code. buffing each character, but giving them clear weaknesses that the other pokes cover seems like a good idea and, coupled with a better switch mechanism, can make PT an interesting character to play. i understand the idea behind wild pokes in B+, but it would seem to me to be more interesting to have them function as they do in vBrawl, only more functional as a team/obviously buffed.
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01/07/2010, 11:22 PM
Post: #75
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Pardon my newbishness, but am I the only one through the entire thread that thinks Squirtle, Ivy, and Charizard should GAIN attack power with damage like Lucario instead of losing it to stamina? I mean really, every avid pokemon gamer knows that all starters have an ability that boosts their Same-Type Attacks by 1.5 when they get to 1/3rd HP. A select few would think the fact that Lucario has this ability in BBrawl is an abomination. Yes, the stamina system does encourage switching, but the only reason aPokemon Trainer would switch constantly is to obtain a type advantage, or get rid of minor statuses such as confusion and attract. If anything, a Pokemon Trainer would hesitate to switch due to losing stat boosts and getting damaged by Stealth Rock/Spikes. This idea might be more suited for a separate project of its own, but what if we followed Pokemon battle mechanics to make the pokemon "broken"? For Example: •Charizard's Fire Spin (Up B, Nair) would have a 0x SDI multiplier due to Fire Spin's trapping capability in pokemon battles. •Squirtle's Tail Whip (Uair, FTilt, DTilt) lowers Defense by doing lots of shield damage. •Ivysaur's Skull Bash (FSmash) could have Super Armor during the charging frames. I myself tried this idea with a Pikachu PAC. I don't mean to promote my tweaks, but Up+Bing (Agility) backwards then forwards, flying backwards with Bair (Fly) and charging up a Super-Armored Skull Bash before lunging forwards is fun. It turned into pure hilarity when I turned Up Taunt into Charge to double the power of the next electric attack. I know it doesn't sound like much from the description, but it gives you something to think about. Pokemon Battle Mechanics might easily make PT worthy of B-. |
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01/08/2010, 04:37 AM
Post: #76
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If we want PT to be more reflective of Pokemon universe gameplay, we should make all of his pokemon have all sweeping because sweeping is the new sweeping. He can sweep to fly around too. By sweeping. Also scizor because bullet punch makes gameplay more fun just like garchomp and Blissey. |
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01/08/2010, 07:21 AM
Post: #77
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(01/08/2010 04:37 AM)Kink-Link5 Wrote: If we want PT to be more reflective of Pokemon universe gameplay, we should make all of his pokemon have all sweeping because sweeping is the new sweeping.Let's not be so hasty. We already have one playable OU and a Choice Scarfed Landshark. I don't think we need the rest of the metagame colliding with this one. |
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01/08/2010, 08:24 AM
Post: #78
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One playable OU?
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01/08/2010, 07:02 PM
Post: #79
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(01/08/2010 08:24 AM)The Cadet Wrote: One playable OU?Lucario. That douche doesn't even learn Skill Swap/Role Play and it has starters' abilities... |
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01/15/2010, 04:30 PM
(This post was last modified: 01/15/2010 04:37 PM by The Cadet.)
Post: #80
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anyway, my PT main friend tried out the latest pacs and was pretty disappointed by what he saw. i'll get back with a list, but i think he was mostly disappointed by the lack of any added effects besides the obvious additions to ivy. after seeing characters like falco and ganon with completely modded specials and obvious changes, the additions made to PT seem small and mostly unnoticeable. His Suggestions: Charizard: auto-Cancel rocksmash Faster Glide/Glide attack make dash attack the same attack for when he has a beam sword Extend the range of dsmash and make enemies near him get grounded Squirtle: withdraw causes tripping/more water graphics (squirtle used SURF!) larger sweetspot on up b and/or more knockback/damage (either/or) bair makes it rise in the air slightly (degrades with spam) he didn't realize ivy's up b could be used repeatedly. i'll relay more ideas as he comes up with them. |
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