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Tier List Speculation
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04/28/2012, 10:06 PM
(This post was last modified: 05/24/2012 10:32 PM by Master WGS.)
Post: #1
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The point of this topic has slightly shifted - Please continue to post your tier lists, updating them whenever your mind changes. Every so often we're going to average the posts and see if we come up with agreeable tier lists. Current average: (05/23/2012 04:58 PM)Stingers Wrote: So I was bored, and decided to average out everyones tier lists in here. As expected, people have started posting more than lists. Since the posts have been seemingly civil thus far, and the mods haven't locked this place up, I'm going to allow it. I'd rather this be closed due to debate over tier lists than be closed over people breaking my rule to prevent them from arguing. Feel free to discuss why your tier list makes sense, and what people are likely missing in theirs. Don't be stupid. S Tier Fox Falco Marth Zelda A Tier Jiggs Snake Sheik Peach C.Falcon Lucario Ike Ness DK Lucas Mario Bowser B Tier Pit Ganondorf King Dedede Wolf ROB Link Pikachu Sonic G&W Charizard Toon Link C Tier Luigi Wario inb4 this is closed because it's too early. |
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04/28/2012, 11:29 PM
Post: #2
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I wouldn't say "too soon" but instead I would say "your opinions will probably change drastically." Anyway I'd say my tier list is a bit different from yours (the spots they're in only specify what tier they're in, not that one character in that tier is better than the other): S Fox Falco Ike Sheik A Mario Snake Link Pikachu Pit Marth Peach Zelda B Toon Link Ness Lucas Luigi Mr. Game and Watch R.O.B Wolf King DeDeDe Lucario Captain Falcon C Ganondorf Sonic DK Bowser Jigglypuff Charizard Wario |
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04/29/2012, 01:53 AM
(This post was last modified: 05/05/2012 07:57 PM by Kink-Link5.)
Post: #3
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This is going to inevitably lead to debating whether you want it to or not. But anyway. Main is in bold, other characters in Italics. Top Tier Falco Jigglypuff Sheik Fox Zelda Mario Many new characters are specifically "Anti-Spacie" but that statement means more for Fox than it does for Falco, who can still go to town just as well as he could in Melee. Zelda has everything she needs to play defensively and force approaches, while Jigglypuff has a new [fickle] RAR to compliment her already dominant game. Mario rounds out the top with incredible gimps, combos, great matchups and moves to use in any given situation. There's literally nothing Mario doesn't have some answer for. High Tier Peach King DeDeDe Pit R.O.B. Pikachu Wario Marth Toon Link Captain Falcon Sonic Peach and Dedede are easy candidates for Top tier, but I had to make a cut off somewhere. Sonic may end up lower when his tricksies start to become easier to spot. Middle Tier Wolf Ganondorf Link Snake DK Luigi Lucario DK is probably a lot higher but I don't know the character all that much to be honest. Contemplated putting Lucario in low but then I remembered his down B. Low Tier Ness Bowser Mr. Game and Watch Lucas Charizard Ike Not bad characters by any means, and if you replaced the order tiers with letter tiers, they'd still be like B tier or whatever. They just don't have super terrific options compared to everyone else, especially, baring some up-B's that still get beaten by spacing, OoS options. |
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04/29/2012, 06:12 AM
(This post was last modified: 04/29/2012 06:24 AM by Master WGS.)
Post: #4
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Please, Epic, it becomes a debate thread when people post something other than tier lists, like you're doing now. The goal of this thread is to see a bunch of people's tier lists to see how different they all are. We don't need an explanation, just your list. Also, thanks Hyperception. Thought I was forgetting someone! Seriously, though, any post after this that isn't just a tier list (and maybe a brief paragraph a la Kink's post) will be met with my wrath (and considered spamming the thread). |
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04/29/2012, 10:21 AM
Post: #5
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Too early, but perhaps this will serve historical purposes
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04/29/2012, 01:10 PM
(This post was last modified: 04/29/2012 01:11 PM by Sudai.)
Post: #6
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In no particular order without any real structure. Strong Fox Falco Shiek Ike Lucario Mario Link Zelda Wario Pit Peach Not-so-strong-but-still-viable Charizard Ness Bowser Sonic Ganon DK Pika GW Low-Tier No one. Nice. Anyone I didn't list I haven't played/seen enough of to have a decent opinion on. |
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04/29/2012, 02:50 PM
(This post was last modified: 05/24/2012 08:19 AM by xAesirGOD.)
Post: #7
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S Tier Fox Falco Ike Ganondorf Lucario A Tier Marth Jiggs Snake Zelda Sheik C. Falcon Peach Lucas Charizard Mario B Tier Luigi King Dedede Wolf Pit Pikachu ROB Ness Toon Link C Tier G&W DK Bowser Wario Sonic so yea.... |
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04/29/2012, 03:26 PM
(This post was last modified: 04/29/2012 03:26 PM by Phaiyte.)
Post: #8
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S+ Tier: (way more options in almost any situation than any other given character) Fox, Falco Marth Shiek S Tier: (Great tools to shut down opponent and generally difficult to deal with) Wolf Link Mario Snake A Tier: (Not as many tools as the higher tiered characters but can still get easy KOs) Ganon Captain Falcon Jigglypuff Peach Toon Link B Tier: (pretty much my idea of "balanced" characters) Ike Dedede Bowser Zelda Donkey Kong Pit Lucario Luigi C Tier: (Usually insanely predictable etc) ROB G&W Sonic Charizard Pikachu Wario F Tier: (I don't know a damn thing about these so I just dumped them somewhere) Ness Lucas |
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05/01/2012, 02:12 AM
(This post was last modified: 05/01/2012 02:14 AM by AFunnyWhisper.)
Post: #9
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S Falco Fox Wolf Ike Peach Zelda Lucario Jigglypuff Dedede Sheik A Mario Bowser Luigi Link Ganondorf Marth Captain Falcon Toon Link Pit Charizard Ness Wario Donkey Kong Lucas ROB Pikachu Snake Sonic Mr. Game and Watch The game is quite well-balanced as far as I can tell. |
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05/01/2012, 11:49 PM
(This post was last modified: 05/01/2012 11:51 PM by Apples.)
Post: #10
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Again, obviously it’s very very early. Regardless… S Fox (Same stuff.) Falco (Same stuff.) Ike (His Side+B provides amazing utitlity. He plays like a Ganondorf who can just combo better and approach better. Side+B > JC Grab? Side+B to JC aerial for combos? Uhhh, HELLO.) Sheik (Same stuff.) Wario (He has good moves, I feel like nobody is playing him at all so he’s not up here. His Side+B is better than I thought at first. He combos well, his dair is surprisingly usable, though not his best feature. DSmash is going to be excellent utility. In the air, he’s a lot like Jigglypuff and I think he maintains a similar playstyle in some regard because of that.) Lucas (Side+B spam is crazy, it's just like Falco lasers. Approaches well, combos well, kills well.) Jigglypuff (Same stuff. Obviously buffs to the rest of the cast might cause her (as well as Wario, potentially, if they are similar enough) to drop a tier, we shall see how that plays out. I still think she's good, admittedly even without the other character's buffs, she's probably not 3rd place good like Melee Jiggles.) A Lucario (A character which I see to have a lot of the necessities of a good character, but nobody is really truly comfy with him yet. He’s definitely going to need some getting used to. He’ll get better with time, so he’s up here cause I expect he’ll get there.) Snake (This dude is a snake and he’s god mad tricksies and it’s going to be annoying no matter where the metagame stands.) Wolf (It’s hard to tell with him too. He has a lot of good things going on, I think people just need to get comfy with him. Blaster spam is good against some characters, rapes others, but against Falco/Lucas he just gets out-spammed.) R.O.B (His tilts are good, he combos well. His recovery is hard to evaluate. I think he might be a sleeper.) Marth (Same stuff, a little less graceful though.) Peach (Same stuff, just better.) Zelda (Honestly, nobody I play with finds her interesting or fun so Idk yet. But from what I’ve watched she seems like a great character with a very defensive and punishing playstyle.) Captain Falcon (Same stuff.) Sonic (He’s fast man. At first, I thought he was total junk. I don’t think so anymore. His B forces players to play super defensive or super aggressive. It plays the role of an edgeguarding move and a punish.) Luigi (Same stuff, just better.) B Ganondorf (Same stuff, just better. Side+B obviously is gonna get people.) Mario (Same stuff, just plenty better all around.) Link (Same stuff, just better.) Toon Link (Same stuff. He mostly just feels like exactly what he’s depicted as: a Y.Link and Brawl Toon Link hybrid. His moves lend itself well to P:M’s engine, but I think he’ll get worse over time.) Ness (Same stuff, just better.) Pit (I loved him at first. Then I realized he’s lacking the combos and the range. Other than that, he’s super solid. Honestly, I don’t expect him to be good but I wouldn’t be surprised if he moved up there.) C Mr. Game and Watch (Same stuff, just better. Haven’t seen enough of him, but he’s always had a playstyle like a good character, he’s just never had the good properties (weight, dodging) that good characters don’t lack. He could definitely jump up though.) Pikachu (Same stuff. He still suffers from the exact same flaws he had in Melee. He wasn’t even good in Melee, that was one player causing the illusion and that was the player’s skill surpassing the character’s limitations, which is rare.) DK (Same stuff, just better. As much as I love the guy (and all of the big guys), he just didn’t get as much of a buff as some other characters did and he won’t be able to compete.) Bowser (Same stuff, just better, but not quite good enough. Similar to DK, though he does have Up+B. I could see him moving up a tier possibly.) Charizard (Fuck, I love this character. I love D-Throw tech chasing and I love the jab… I just don’t think he’s got it in him though.) D King DeDeDe (I think he’s the worst in the cast thus far. Pillow spam (Side+B, idk what they’re called we just call them pillows) just isn’t that good. They’re too easy to avoid, just like 80% of his attacks. …I just don’t see why anyone would ever get hit by him. Poor mobility, poor projectile, poor approaching, poor throws, average recovery, his WoP is too difficult to setup because he just isn’t good. Poor speed on his moves and the fast ones have terrible range, are not safe on hit, or are extremely punishable. I do play against him and as him fairly regularly. He has a few OKAY matchups, but mostly I just think he’s the clear bottom man on the pole.) Not looking to flame or get flamed or anything, just providing extremely brief reasonings for each character (kinda got carried away on Dedede). Most of these are just organized by tier, I didn’t really order them within the tiers themselves. Even the tiers are kind of give or take, obviously it’s all just ballpark right now. =P PS. To avoid flaming in this thread as OP requested, if you want to put me in my place regarding Dedede, PM me please. I'm actually very interested in why everyone thinks he's viable at all. Perhaps I'm missing something. If you reply to me in this thread I won't respond. |
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05/02/2012, 12:46 AM
Post: #11
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Top - difficult to deal with Fox Falco Mario Ike High - answerable threat Marth Sheik C. Falcon Wolf Mid - exploitable weaknesses Lucario Wario Bowser Zelda DK Link Ganondorf Low - hard to lose against King Dedede Charizard I cannot rate the following characters due to my playgroup's inability to use them to a remotely decent potential Snake G&W Pit ROB Luigi Ness Lucas Peach Toon Link Sonic Pikachu Jiggs |
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![[Image: fNjf9.gif]](http://i.imgur.com/fNjf9.gif)
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05/02/2012, 02:15 AM
(This post was last modified: 05/04/2012 06:08 PM by The Nessence.)
Post: #12
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Top Tier Fox Falco Jigglypuff Peach Sheik Lucas Wario High Tier Marth Mario Ganondorf Link Captain Falcon Ike King Dedede Bowser Ness Wolf Mid Tier DK Pikachu ROB Luigi Lucario Zelda Snake Pit Toon Link G&W Charizard Sonic - i don't know maybe Sonic is like the IC's, he requires a reallly good player, whom only comes once in a blue moon. |
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05/02/2012, 11:52 AM
(This post was last modified: 05/02/2012 11:54 AM by Master WGS.)
Post: #13
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Bravo, guys. This is looking great. This was spurred by a debate with some friends over whether or not there was a generally agreed upon tier-list (obviously not an official one, but something people felt pretty similarly about) yet. Clearly, this shows there's still plenty of variety, yet still some fairly common placings among certain characters. I'm finding it really interesting to re-look at characters I dismissed as the bottom or threw at the top when seeing them in such different places for different people, or even more so, the same for lots of people when they're fairly different from my opinion. The lack of discussion keeps it ambiguous/relatively argument-safe, and forces me to reevaluate my position, rather than try to change your mind, which I find much more enlightening in the long run. Thanks for helping with this little exercise and, please, if you've yet to give your input, do so with the same gusto as those before you! Also, if you decide you've changed your mind on your list, post again - it is paramount we see the changes you make, so it's better not to edit your original post. Or, if you do edit your post, be sure to mark who moved from where so we can all keep track. Thanks again! |
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05/02/2012, 02:26 PM
(This post was last modified: 05/05/2012 02:43 PM by Hyperception.)
Post: #14
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Ignoring characters that I don't have an understanding of as of yet The [Brackets] around some characters are for characters I don't know very well but know somewhat, and they indicate the range on the list that I'd feel comfortable putting them if forced to do so. Rape tier [Ike] - (Lots of potential, but I really need to play against him more) Mario - (Mario) Sheik - (I think that she handles the new tops better than Fox/Falco do) Fox - (still fucking amazing) Falco - (still fucking amazing) Link - (I can't believe how good this guy is) A tier Peach - (<3) G&W - (This guy is far better than anyone gives him credit for) [Toon/Booze/Pika] - (Any of these three guys could be up here...) Marth - (!?) [Luigi] - (Respectable improvements...) DK - (This tier gave me a lot of trouble, but I think Marth has an easier time with Mario) [/Ike]- (I'd put money down that he's better than ganon, but where to go from there, I obviously don't know) B tier Falcon - (Peach was already better and I think that her improvements were more substantial than his.) Ganon - (More weaknesses than the above characters, and those weaknesses are called Mario and Link) [/Luigi/Toon] - (...I would't put either of these down as lower than b tier) S Tier* Sonic - (I feel as though the drop in effectiveness between falcon and sonic is fairly noticeable.) [/Booze/Pika] - (...and these two have the potential to be low-end) *(The S stands for Sonic) |
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05/02/2012, 02:35 PM
Post: #15
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In no particular order and ignoring people I know nothing about: A Melee Top Tiers Wolf Pikachu Ike Mario B (Toon) Link Dedede Ness Pit |
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05/03/2012, 04:43 AM
Post: #16
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Top tier: Wolf. |
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05/03/2012, 01:03 PM
(This post was last modified: 05/06/2012 03:28 AM by donkks.)
Post: #17
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Top Tier Marth Falco Sheik Fox High Tier Ganondorf Zelda Ike Link Mario Toon Link Mid Tier Captain Falcon Wolf Pikachu Ness Lucario Bowser Peach Pit Luigi Jigglypuff DK Snake Mr. G&W Charizard Low Tier Sonic Wario ROB Lucas King Dedede Edit: Tier list revised. |
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05/03/2012, 07:17 PM
(This post was last modified: 05/04/2012 07:01 AM by bombrider.)
Post: #18
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Top Tier: Fox Falco Ike: (very fast, very powerful attacks, very good spacing, and Quick Draw) Sheik Pit: (balance of defensive and offensive options, strong approach and recovery with Side B, very good projectile despite low damage) High Tier: Marth Wolf Lucario: (Character has a lot of potential, takes a master to use him though) Ness: (Powerful defensive character, great aerials, great projectiles, best throws, unique yo-yo smashes, powerful finishers) Captain Falcon Lucas Peach Link: (Link has come a long way I think...lots of improvements all around such as fast falling with arrows, and walking with shield in front makes Link a good long ranged character) Mario: (Balanced moveset, Cape damages foes through shields, great harassment projecile) Mid Tier: Luigi ROB: (Good defensive options that can be mixed up with Jet approach) Zelda: (Good defensive options...) Donkey Kong Ganondorf: (Ganon has bad issues with projectiles) Jigglypuff: (Newcomers give Jigglypuff a lot of problems now I think, and buffs to formerly weaker characters reduces Jigglypuff's status) Low Tier: (I don't foresee these characters winning tournaments filled with Foxes and Falcos) Snake: (Good defensive options and good matchups vs certain characters, Can camp well against characters who lack projectiles, strong tilts, Crawl Tilt is quite useful, faster crawl is very nice, Good Grab range and good throws, walking during grabs is too slow to be effective, Weakest F-Smash in the game in terms of damage that gets beat and clanks against Jabs and weak projectiles, Jab nerfed so Jab -> F-Tilt not possible or more difficult, Dair has small hitboxes and poor priority and is easy to beat...Stagger animation of D-Air pushes opponents outside of the small hitboxes of D-Air and fails to trap targets, linear recovery makes it impossible to recover against edgeguarding oppoents but only in very select few situations, lacks a good approach game) Sonic: (Still lacks power on many of his moves, approach is nullified easily by projectiles) GameAndWatch: (character with extreme weaknesses while his strengths aren't extreme enough to make up for those weaknesses, loss of air dodge after Up-Special hurts his game) Characters I'm unsure of: Bowser Charizard Wario Pikachu Toon Link Dedede |
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05/03/2012, 09:41 PM
Post: #19
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Just a friendly reminder this thread won't tolerate discussion. If you feel so moved by a post that you must say something, quote the post and take it elsewhere. |
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05/04/2012, 05:52 AM
(This post was last modified: 05/04/2012 05:58 AM by Master WGS.)
Post: #20
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Thanks Vangaurd. Quick thought for people (will add this to OP) who are willing to make this more interesting/further satiate my weird curiosity. Please, revise your current tier list by bolding the character(s) you play and underlining the characters you frequently play against within your list. I want to see if there starts being correlations. Again, thanks everyone for being super cooperative. I know I keep wanting to say stuff, but keeping this thread pure from discussion is making it much more interesting for me, and hopefully those of you following along. |
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