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Ness-PAC Alpha'd
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12/03/2009, 02:49 AM
Post: #21
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Actually, make the grab release lag disappear. Ness should have time to Fsmash the opponent on grab release.
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12/03/2009, 03:49 AM
Post: #22
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How about making the pk fire itself last longer? That'd be fun... "BURNNNN!"
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12/04/2009, 12:48 AM
Post: #23
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His aerial jump should hook forward more, like in SSB64. I love PK fire boosting.
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12/04/2009, 03:53 AM
Post: #24
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I'll be honest with you, I ran a tournament at my house and demo'd Brawl- (which turned into a side tournament somehow...) and with hitstun, PK Fire is absolutely abusive. You can just keep on stacking it.
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12/09/2009, 06:33 PM
Post: #25
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(12/03/2009 02:49 AM)The Cadet Wrote: Actually, make the grab release lag disappear. Ness should have time to Fsmash the opponent on grab release. ....just make it normal like everyone elses, i believe i saw some where that 2ish frames makes all the difference.. and leave air releases alone x_x im pretty sure time for him fsmash is too fast -_- (12/04/2009 03:53 AM)Spongejordan123 Wrote: I'll be honest with you, I ran a tournament at my house and demo'd Brawl- (which turned into a side tournament somehow...) and with hitstun, PK Fire is absolutely abusive. You can just keep on stacking it. with players on state pr or just casual players? it could be bad (S)DI :/ |
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12/09/2009, 09:24 PM
Post: #26
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I think that every character's grab-release lag should be set to 20 frames. No more, no less.
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12/10/2009, 12:23 AM
Post: #27
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IMO, all Ness really needs in this environment is a ridiculous Fair, no special fall Up B, stronger Uair, stronger Bair, and Dthrow set-ups (changing the Dthrow angle or lowering its KBG). With all of that, he'd be pretty ridick but, I'm not quite sure what else you could do other than increase the Dtilt trip rate.
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![[Image: MajinVegetaSignature.png]](http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/Supermetalknuckles/MajinVegetaSignature.png)
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12/10/2009, 02:57 AM
Post: #28
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Stronger PKT1 hit, angle 5A for blastzone stupidity. Magnet hitbox yoyos suck less |
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12/10/2009, 04:07 PM
Post: #29
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(12/10/2009 12:23 AM)Falco400 Wrote: IMO, all Ness really needs in this environment is a ridiculous Fair, no special fall Up B, stronger Uair, stronger Bair, and Dthrow set-ups (changing the Dthrow angle or lowering its KBG). With all of that, he'd be pretty ridick but, I'm not quite sure what else you could do other than increase the Dtilt trip rate. no special fall up b? :/ idk about THAAAAAT... maybe pkt ball is harder to destroy... but i wouldnt go much further and whats with all the tripping? your starting to sound like a balanced brawl person or something :/ tripping attacks dont really help that much seeming on how theres increased hitstun that lets you do any combo a forced dtilt-trip would let you do (12/10/2009 02:57 AM)The Cadet Wrote: Stronger PKT1 hit, angle 5A for blastzone stupidity. yo-yo is pretty good actually, dsmash yo-yo is always good and usmash yo-yo is weak on the arc-top but great on the beginning of the swing magnet should be like b+ SA on startup and strong windbox on release(like way stronger than b+ though) |
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12/10/2009, 04:13 PM
Post: #30
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(12/10/2009 04:07 PM)gangstakirby Wrote:(12/10/2009 12:23 AM)Falco400 Wrote: IMO, all Ness really needs in this environment is a ridiculous Fair, no special fall Up B, stronger Uair, stronger Bair, and Dthrow set-ups (changing the Dthrow angle or lowering its KBG). With all of that, he'd be pretty ridick but, I'm not quite sure what else you could do other than increase the Dtilt trip rate. Except that's not how hitstun works. D-tilt has no knockback and thus, no tumble, and thus, no hitstun. Trips/frame advantages are needed to combo in the absence of hitstun. D-tilt with frame advantage sounds cool come to think of it. |
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12/10/2009, 04:24 PM
Post: #31
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(12/10/2009 04:13 PM)Kink-Link5 Wrote: Except that's not how hitstun works. D-tilt has no knockback and thus, no tumble, and thus, no hitstun. Trips/frame advantages are needed to combo in the absence of hitstun. there is slight hitstun from the little bit that any jab or dtilt gives from knocking someone into the air, which is even more in brawl minus than regular brawl where tripping actually is better cuz brawl has virtually no hitstun |
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12/10/2009, 05:00 PM
Post: #32
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(12/10/2009 04:24 PM)gangstakirby Wrote:(12/10/2009 04:13 PM)Kink-Link5 Wrote: Except that's not how hitstun works. D-tilt has no knockback and thus, no tumble, and thus, no hitstun. Trips/frame advantages are needed to combo in the absence of hitstun. Brawl has just as much hitstun as Melee, and the experience to which you refer is flinch. Snake's first F-tilt has a lot of flinch but 0 hitstun because hitstun is an effect of launch speed and Snake's first F-tilt has no launch. |
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12/10/2009, 05:13 PM
Post: #33
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(12/10/2009 05:00 PM)Kink-Link5 Wrote: Brawl has just as much hitstun as Melee, and the experience to which you refer is flinch. Snake's first F-tilt has a lot of flinch but 0 hitstun because hitstun is an effect of launch speed and Snake's first F-tilt has no launch.Sense... the bolded statement makes none |
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12/10/2009, 05:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 12/10/2009 05:24 PM by SmashManiac2008.)
Post: #34
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(12/10/2009 05:13 PM)gangstakirby Wrote:(12/10/2009 05:00 PM)Kink-Link5 Wrote: Brawl has just as much hitstun as Melee, and the experience to which you refer is flinch. Snake's first F-tilt has a lot of flinch but 0 hitstun because hitstun is an effect of launch speed and Snake's first F-tilt has no launch.Sense... the bolded statement makes none Brawl's hitstun and Melee's hitstun have a floating point of 0.4. The difference is that the hitstun in Brawl can be canceled into an air dodge after 14(?) frames and into an aerial after 23(?) frames, regardless of the move's knockback. Melee also has a MUUUUUCH higher D-grav than Brawl, and moves send at lower angles by-and-large. The effect ends up being that Brawl's hitstun seems less than Melee's when they are the same. Try to just jump out of a move like Sheik's U-smash (or another benchmark move that was relatively unchanged between Melee and Brawl) and you'll find the hitstun is roughly the same. I don't like that this must be explained so much, but I understand that it is a fairly unknown fact. Brawl and Melee have the same hitstun values. |
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12/10/2009, 05:53 PM
(This post was last modified: 12/10/2009 05:55 PM by theobaldo51.)
Post: #35
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(12/10/2009 04:07 PM)gangstakirby Wrote:(12/10/2009 12:23 AM)Falco400 Wrote: IMO, all Ness really needs in this environment is a ridiculous Fair, no special fall Up B, stronger Uair, stronger Bair, and Dthrow set-ups (changing the Dthrow angle or lowering its KBG). With all of that, he'd be pretty ridick but, I'm not quite sure what else you could do other than increase the Dtilt trip rate. Because it's a freakin' Dtilt, what more could you possibly do to a Dtilt like Ness's? Give it insane amounts of damage? No. Making its already relatively high trip rate (30%) to about 60% or more would break it already, simply because of how fast of a move it is. Last I checked, Ness's Dtilt also isn't used that often and only every now and again when the option is available. Generally, because of its sucky range and somewhat poor damage output, it is completely overshadowed by his other ground moves (like jab and dash attack) so buffing up what it's already pretty decent at isn't acting like BBrawl at all because BBrawl wouldn't jack up the trip rate to 60%. Ness's Dtilt already has trip rate anyway so it's nothing like BBrawl because BBrawl adds tripping to moves, I'm suggesting to make moves that already DO trip have a higher rate so you can take more advantage of what their original use was, just more often in occurrence rather than relying on that small % chance of it occurring. I'm rather disturbed that you disagree with changing Ness's Dtilt in such a way that makes sense for the move in this environment. Completely changing the way it works while might be fun, isn't what you should do since it can already be broken if you just increase its trip rate and either give it a bigger hitbox (more range) or give it more damage output since it's rather fast. It's such an unused move in Brawl (at least sees little use) that it needs to be useful here because we're trying to make characters broken by balance, or broken in a balanced sort of way and that's the way I am looking at most characters as it stands. So if you disagree with me, that's fine, but accusing me of "thinking like BBrawl" is stupid because ANYONE can think of my ideas, they are simple but tackle what the character needs to be broken. At least, in my opinion. |
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12/10/2009, 06:31 PM
Post: #36
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the thing is... tripping = useless with brawl minus hit lag theres zero reason to have it, but w/e it makes no dif |
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12/10/2009, 06:40 PM
Post: #37
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What? Beg your pardon? Tripping is useless on a move as fast as dtilt? Please, stop saying things that are blatantly wrong. |
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12/10/2009, 07:14 PM
Post: #38
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(12/10/2009 06:40 PM)The Cadet Wrote: What? Beg your pardon? Tripping is useless on a move as fast as dtilt? how is that blatantly wrong? dtilt flinch combos the exact same way as dtilt with brawl minus hitstun would :/ its pretty useless |
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12/10/2009, 08:06 PM
Post: #39
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Tripping lasts significantly longer than hitstun, even with B- mechanics. Seriously! Stop talking crap... and trolling. I'd actually make the trip rate 100%, seeing as Dtilt cancels trips. |
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12/10/2009, 08:13 PM
Post: #40
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(12/10/2009 08:06 PM)Beefster Wrote: Tripping lasts significantly longer than hitstun, even with B- mechanics. Seriously! Stop talking crap... and trolling. the difference is ultra minimal..... :/ dtilt>trip>grab/mostanyotherattack = dtilt>grab/mostanyotherattack except faster |
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