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Ike 2.1.1
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06/17/2011, 02:19 PM
Post: #1
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Right now, Ike is a solid, midtier character. Just some suggestions to hopefully push him up and make his moves more balanced. Down-B: Is the instant kill still in? I think it is. It shouldn't be. Neutral-B: Way too strong. Seriously. It kills from like 30% and has invincibility frames. Aside from those nerfs, I would just go through and make all of his moves faster. The animations, the endtimes, everything should just go faster. This gives him the ability to combo better and gives him more flow and a faster feel, hopefully letting him better compete with top tiers. Maybe add a bit to his ground speed also. |
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06/19/2011, 08:54 PM
Post: #2
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Haven't played around with Ike yet, but making him faster.. He's ludicrously strong, it could shoot him from mid-tier to like.. unbeatable. Simple solution, but it wouldn't work. |
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![[Image: 2lsb8xy.jpg]](http://i50.tinypic.com/2lsb8xy.jpg)
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06/19/2011, 11:39 PM
Post: #3
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Neutral B is not invincible. It still takes damage but no knockback. Not to mention you have to charge it for a very long time and it damages yourself. This certainly does not need to be nerfed. If an ike KOs you with this more than once per 4 stock match, it's because you're letting him.
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06/21/2011, 03:35 AM
Post: #4
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No, if he KOs you with it more than once, it's because it's giant and it kills from 40. I don't know what frame it starts on, but it's very fast and kills very early. Also, he's not ludicrously strong. He has moves that do a lot of damage, he has a nair that combos into a nair, and has a dthrow and dair that are good for techchases. My solution is to let his other moves combo occasionally, and to nerf the stupid ones. I didn't mention this before, the Up-B healing should be removed. |
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06/21/2011, 03:13 PM
Post: #5
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agree with filbert
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06/21/2011, 07:57 PM
Post: #6
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Awww yeeee.
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06/21/2011, 08:32 PM
Post: #7
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Eruption is extremely easy to avoid if its not combo'd into. It takes forever to charge up, and can only be charged up all at the same time(no charging partially bit by bit). It's startup is slow enough to react to and shield. It is self damaging on miss or hit. Not to mention it has massive end lag. Seriously, I explained this already. This move is certainly not OP, especially in minus. This move and fsmash are pretty much ike's only viable shots at an early kill. As for down b, the instakill is not in the current public build. To the suggestion of speeding him up all around, he already has gone through this(ftilt, fsmash, jab, dtilt, bair, fair, nair). Seriously go try him out in vbrawl and it should be pretty clear that he is significantly sped up as is. Speeding him up again and tweaking his moves to give him longer combos would basically make him marth. Ike just isn't about long combos, hes about short powerful ones. |
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06/22/2011, 02:15 PM
Post: #8
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For Eruption, it's not that hard to charge. It can be canceled by shield, making stupid approaches punishable. will also be charged almost every kill. It can be combo'd into occasionally, but it mainly punishes. If you overcommit to something or have certain momentum, you will die. From 40%. 40% is ridiculous. Ike doesn't have combos. I'm just trying to make him better. He would definitely not be like Marth. Currently, can't combo. He's can Side-B, jab, and nair. He some has useless moves. I just want to fix his problems and make him solidly viable. |
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06/22/2011, 02:42 PM
(This post was last modified: 06/22/2011 02:43 PM by The Cadet.)
Post: #9
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(06/17/2011 02:19 PM)filbert Wrote: Right now, Ike is a solid, midtier character. Just some suggestions to hopefully push him up and make his moves more balanced. Nope, it's just wicked strong on its own. Quote:Neutral-B: Way too strong. Seriously. It kills from like 30% and has invincibility frames. Nope. Ike is solid. Unless something serious comes around, he's not getting any major game-changers. And that's for good reason-he's a fairly unique, fun-to-use, well-balanced character. There is NOTHING wrong with ike at this point, and all but a very few tiny facets of his character have been polished to a mirror shine. We are NOT enacting huge game-changers like that on successful characters. At most, some new gimmick (akin to Ganondoken), but not a reform from the top down of everything that makes Ike... well, Ike. ...And then there's how you think Eruption is too good. Newsflash: it isn't. (06/22/2011 02:15 PM)filbert Wrote: For Eruption, it's not that hard to charge. It can be canceled by shield, making stupid approaches punishable. will also be charged almost every kill. And how often will you land it? Eruption is genuinely hard to land. It has enough startup not to be totally oblivious, and the kind of awkward hitbox that makes comboing into it horizontally a real chore (ike's character design makes turning it into a vertical combo finisher incredibly hard and rare, almost completely relying on, well, dair to combo into). So it's a very awkward finisher, and an even more awkward punisher. But even then, you still have a move where usually, if the opponent didn't die off the top, you won't be able to charge it. Look, you are seriously underestimating how hard it is to charge eruption. If your opponent is NOT dead, then they will approach you, forcing you to cancel your charge. Yes, it forces an approach. This is Brawl-; you're going to be approaching a lot no matter what. But seriously-if you can land eruption more than once a match, then your opponent is probably playing the matchup wrong. Quote:It can be combo'd into occasionally, but it mainly punishes. If you overcommit to something or have certain momentum, you will die. From 40%. 40% is ridiculous. Then... don't fuck up. This is not a hard concept to grasp–like with Ganondorf, DK, Sheik, whatever, it's a harsh punish-some characters will just 0-death you instead, how about that? Hell, 40% OHKO that's hard to land AND needs to be fully charged beforehand? Have you even SEEN Samus or DK's chargeable specials? And those aren't nearly as hard to charge... Quote:Ike doesn't have combos. I'm just trying to make him better. He would definitely not be like Marth. Currently, can't combo. He's can Side-B, jab, and nair. He some has useless moves. I just want to fix his problems and make him solidly viable. Except... He does have combos. Dash attack, Nairs, Fairs, Eruption, Jab->utilt->uair, ETC. Ike is in a similar pool as far as combos go to chars like Snake or DK-short strings that still do a shitload of damage and still kill stupidly early. Seriously, Ike is a VERY solid character. His design is accepted and well-liked; he's a hard-to-play heavy who is at times tough to figure out. He's incredibly well-balanced. He's at the phase of development we like to call "do not fuck with this". |
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06/23/2011, 02:07 AM
(This post was last modified: 06/23/2011 02:18 AM by table.)
Post: #10
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Ike seems like he might be pretty damn good, but I think it's silly that it's still possible to PS his fair on reaction. If you sped it up by like 2 frames (or maybe a tiny bit more, whatever is slightly faster than average reaction time), I bet he'd be top 5-6 in the game, and potentially have a chance against DK. Probably some where around high tier now, and if a small change could make him able to be top tier without making any of the top tiers worse, that seems like it'd be accomplishing what this hack wants to accomplish  Quote: or DK's chargeable specials? And those aren't nearly as hard to charge...and DK's punch is easier to hit with, and rapes people on the ledge lol |
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06/23/2011, 02:35 PM
Post: #11
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Ike's edgeguards too. Use it on a Fox at like 20% as he's recovering from FD, see if he lives. I think he will, but it's close.
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06/23/2011, 08:52 PM
Post: #12
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Yes, Eruption on the ledge is really, really good against some people.
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06/24/2011, 05:45 AM
Post: #13
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That's what I'm saying. I'm not proposing anything drastic, just trying to make all his moves equal.
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06/25/2011, 08:33 PM
Post: #14
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Eruption is not good on the ledge. This game has autosnap. 
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07/01/2011, 10:03 AM
Post: #15
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(06/25/2011 08:33 PM)TL? Wrote: Eruption is not good on the ledge. This game has autosnap. right back at you. You don't use it to hit them coming onto the ledge, you use it to trap them there because of how short ledge invincibility is and how huge and long-lasting the hitbox is.
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07/01/2011, 07:46 PM
Post: #16
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(07/01/2011 10:03 AM)The Cadet Wrote:(06/25/2011 08:33 PM)TL? Wrote: Eruption is not good on the ledge. This game has autosnap. Last time you said something was broken on the ledge, it was Bowser's dsmash, which I tested out and can uair on reaction.. |
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07/03/2011, 03:24 PM
Post: #17
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Didn't say it was broken. Said it was good. I was wrong. Pretty sure I'm right this time though.
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07/03/2011, 05:31 PM
Post: #18
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(07/03/2011 03:24 PM)The Cadet Wrote: Didn't say it was broken. Said it was good. I was wrong. Pretty sure I'm right this time though. Can't I just like.. not get hit by it? I'm just imagining myself playing Ike and using eruption on the ledge, and I'm seeing myself wasting a lot of eruptions lol. |
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07/08/2011, 07:39 AM
Post: #19
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Try harder, then.
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