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Up smash and down smash
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05/21/2011, 07:15 PM
Post: #1
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Minus Bowser seems to have play based on two things, his Armour, and his new "special abilities", wind, trip. However one mechanic, the latter part of his up smash grounding enemies, seemed like a good idea. But realistically, it never happens. A solution would be to make his up-smash not stop his momentum. So that you can run up smash and still go forward to ground your enemy. As for his down-smash. While it can deal good potential damage and has a kill hit box at the end. The individual hits just don't string together well. A big part of the issue is that once the enemy get's hit once, they realize they have gotten into the attack quickly enough to DI out of the last hit. The animation should be about twice as fast. |
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05/24/2011, 12:09 AM
Post: #2
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I will agree, Bowser's up-smash trip is a nifty function, but it never leads into anything. Sliding up-smash would enable him to close distance on a tripped enemy, or maybe you can cancel up-smash to down-tilt, or fire? Down-smash is ridiculously easy to get out of. It's real slow, and once you see yourself getting caught in the spikes if you just mash up on the c and control stick you'll always dodge the final hit. Speeding up the attack would make this harder. |
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![[Image: 33xh5wy.png]](http://i43.tinypic.com/33xh5wy.png)
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05/24/2011, 03:20 AM
Post: #3
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Up smash isn't bad. The whole point of grounding was to make the sour spot not suck. The sweet spot was never bad. There is nothing wrong with moves that can be DIed out of. I hate the idea of speed it up and it will be fine like Pika's D Smash. |
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05/24/2011, 04:52 PM
Post: #4
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I think I'm arguing for something different. I'm not complaining about the grounded sour-spot. I'm complaining that the trip that happens from the latter half of the up-smash is redundant. Well, if this were Melee Oro I'd agree with you, but this is Brawl- and having a move that can be DI'd out of as easily as Bowser's down-smash does make it virtually useless when you compare it to the efficiency of a plethora of other smashes employed by other characters. |
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05/24/2011, 06:14 PM
Post: #5
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That too, because if you upsmash too far from the enemy and trip them it's no good because you still cant attack them. But if he slided while upsmashing, he could slide into attack range.
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05/24/2011, 09:59 PM
(This post was last modified: 05/24/2011 10:00 PM by RAI.)
Post: #6
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Upsmash grounds opponents, it just happens at the latter end of the hitbox. Its perfect for an opponent laying on the ground that missed a tech because if they roll either way they trip, if they sit there then they get upsmashed and if they get up attack or get up then they usually get grounded. Machines with perfect timing have enough invincibility frames to avoid everything. BUT I play against humans. I have to say... Bowser is one of the most balanced characters in Brawl Minus. I love what the developing team has done with him and they hardly get enough credit for it. They made the concept awesome. And by speeding downsmash a little (I'm quite sure they did...) they made it less abuseable. It draws people in with wind so its okay that its easy for a pro to DI out of. Its got things to throw your opponent in it. |
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05/24/2011, 10:35 PM
Post: #7
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Not to say I am not satisfied with Bowser. I'm just breaking certain things down that, in my opinion, would make him better with out breaking him. My main point is, if I were playing in a tournament, and if money was on the line. I would never trust down-smash to do my opponent in because they would almost certainly get out and punish me for it. Which I think is something is an unnecessary misfortune that doesn't need to be a part of minus. |
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05/24/2011, 11:08 PM
Post: #8
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Its the same thing as Zelda's Upsmash... as a downside for the move being able to draw people in and so easy to catch them in they can get out of it if they are good enough. I share your frustration, but if we fix this then we also should fix Zelda, since Pikachu's dsmash and Rob's dsmash got fixed too. I need to see a video with some subtitles on it on why you think Bower's upsmash isn't up to par. His downsmash is pretty lacking against good players, but upsmash is awesome... I know it rapes CPUs. |
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05/24/2011, 11:09 PM
Post: #9
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(05/24/2011 09:59 PM)RAI Wrote: Upsmash grounds opponents, it just happens at the latter end of the hitbox. Its perfect for an opponent laying on the ground that missed a tech because if they roll either way they trip, if they sit there then they get upsmashed and if they get up attack or get up then they usually get grounded.I only play against humans and I main Bowser and have never seen a grounded enemy out of training mode. |
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05/24/2011, 11:10 PM
Post: #10
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You know... a random suggestion would be to make the individual hitboxes on the attack stronger. Sort of like Peach's downsmash in Melee. THAT would be f***ing awesome on Bowser and fit his character pretty well. IMO Who likes that idea? |
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05/24/2011, 11:11 PM
Post: #11
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Unless the opponent can't/doesn't DI out. Then you ruin it for weaker players by giving a giant tank a giant move that does 96% on one hit.
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05/24/2011, 11:13 PM
(This post was last modified: 05/24/2011 11:13 PM by RAI.)
Post: #12
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Well in melee you only got hit by the full attack if you crouch cancled it. Otherwise you flew at a random trajectory. I'd lol so bad if the developers added crouch canceling and that happened. |
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05/25/2011, 01:43 AM
(This post was last modified: 05/25/2011 01:47 AM by Saijee.)
Post: #13
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Hmm, that's actually a good suggestion. Though my problem with his up-smash is really that it seems to have effects that don't seem to lead to much. The tripping function may stop enemies but it usually won't give you enough time to pick at your fallen foe. And the grounded function just flat out never happens. The actual attack works fine, it's just the random additions don't lead anywhere. Sure I guess someone wanted to they could take out 1 stock and then just up-smash to trip the enemy and repeat for 8 minutes and win that way, but other then that it doesn't work to combo much. So I'd suggest not making him instantly stop, like Luigi's down-smash, or making it cancel-able into either his flame or d-tilt. |
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05/25/2011, 02:05 AM
(This post was last modified: 05/25/2011 02:28 PM by RAI.)
Post: #14
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Upsmash canceling is just trying to build in combos. The upsmash resets position. Its like the double low thrust parry in RA Salvator's book Homeland, it just equals the footing and thats all. Sorry for the Drizzit D'Urden reference... If I knew how to change the .pac files I'd experiment with a melee peach kind of dsmash on bowser to see how that works. |
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05/25/2011, 03:11 AM
Post: #15
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Drizzt should be in the next Smash game. Sorry, but I am a huge Drizzt fanboy.
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05/25/2011, 04:08 PM
Post: #16
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Currently, down-smash is one of his best moves. Since Bowser takes up a lot of space, this move is very useful. It lasts longer than spotdodges and rolls, those will not work at all. If your opponent is close enough to you and doesn't have space to roll out of range, down-smash will hit almost every time. The only way to punish it is after it ends or with a really long range move (some smash attacks, tether grapples). This is probably the move I use the most with Bowser. If you want to try changing it yourself, it's pretty simple. Download PSA, find his down-smash, and change the offensive collision. Everything is labeled, with trial and error, you should be able to get what you want in less than half and hour. |
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05/26/2011, 04:19 AM
Post: #17
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I dunno Filbert. Everyone I've ever hit with Down smash has ALWAYS DI'd the last hit. I've also DI'd out of the last hit every time someone has hit me with it.
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05/26/2011, 07:54 AM
Post: #18
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But after DIing out, have they punished you? In my experience, they don't have time.
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05/26/2011, 05:59 PM
Post: #19
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At percents under 40% yes. Above that no.
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05/26/2011, 06:18 PM
Post: #20
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(05/25/2011 01:43 AM)Saijee Wrote: Hmm, that's actually a good suggestion. The fact that Bowser's usmash trips is actually incredible. If your opponent trips, they essentially have 3 options--roll left, roll right, get up. Putting your opponent in that position gives you a 1/3 chance to read and punish, and bowser can take advantage of a correct read and hit hard. If you think your opponent is going to roll, try tripping your opponent then charging another usmash. If you think they'll roll away, trip them, then dash forward and usmash. If they start getting up to dodge the trip hitbox, just wait. The grounding I agree is kinda badly added in, but it is devastating when it does ground you. |
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