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Interesting idea if you guys wanted a non spammy Samus
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03/01/2011, 09:57 PM
Post: #21
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The last hit of Up-Smash could shoot something.
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03/01/2011, 10:06 PM
Post: #22
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If it's possible... that actually sounds pretty cool. Maybe a mid charge energy ball that doesn't take away your actual charge (if that's possible).
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03/01/2011, 10:22 PM
(This post was last modified: 03/01/2011 10:28 PM by Shade_.)
Post: #23
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Thanks thunder. Anyway, Last hit on up-smash shooting something sounds good on paper. I just don't think it would actually work very well when put into practice. Here is why. The problem in the first place is the last hit never connects. And it has very little stun in relation to its cool-down time so you are extremely vulnerable afterward. The fix has to address these problems in some way. The last hit never connects so even if the last hit shot something, you're just shooting a projectile into the air for no reason. The only useful projectile I can see coming from an up-smash would be a homing missile because that might actually hit. ...Or if it shot five uncharged beams upward at different angles that would actually make it a legitimate attack. Up-smash is basically just for the stun anyway, and un-charged 'b' does the job very well. Combining the two sounds nice if they don't want to make it cancelable. |
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![[Image: 33xh5wy.png]](http://i43.tinypic.com/33xh5wy.png)
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03/02/2011, 06:24 AM
Post: #24
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Quote:if the last hit shot something, you're just shooting a projectile into the air for no reason. Except that you just shot something upwards, so you could hit someone above you, or discourage attacking from the air. Though if it's on the last hit, that's sixteen different kinds of telegraphed. Also, I'm not sure if Usmash being mini-beam spam is an excellent idea or a terrible one. And I'm pretty sure those are the only possibilities. No middle ground. I'd almost say just make each blast on the Usmash have decent knockback. Not a killer, but a very long-lasting strong hitbox. But it's late, and I don't know if that's reasonable or not. Came to mind, anyway. |
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03/02/2011, 12:43 PM
Post: #25
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Just make the last hit of usmash bigger? Cancellable is not the way to go, as it still leaves the move useless. It just lets you choose another move sooner. Roll should be faster, not cancellable into something which kills tech chases. A lot of people's rolls are garbage, we don't need to make them gimmicky to make them good. Just make the rolls themselves better. I'm not sure why people think making stuff cancellable is ever a good idea, it either does one of two things 90% of the time. 1: Still leaves the move itself useless. (See Ganon's utilt, kirby's old nair, etc) 2: Makes the move polarized to the point using anything else in most situations is looked down upon (See Ike's SideB, pika's jolt/thunder, etcc) In this case, it'd be the former. Now, tech/situational cancels are an entirely different story. (See Ganon's ledge canceled choke/wizkick, ike's vbrawl fsmash plat cancel) But yeah, usmash does seem like the "GTFO" move for her, but i agree it doesn't do the job it needs to. |
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03/02/2011, 08:21 PM
(This post was last modified: 03/02/2011 08:23 PM by Shade_.)
Post: #26
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Hitting someone in the air with a straight projectile from up-smash would happen about as much as pit would hit someone in the air shooting straight up (with out controlling the arrow), which isn't much. Unless she shot a fully charged beam or something else covering huge range. I think Isaacs idea could work if the last hit-box on up-smash was like Lucas's up-smash (size-wise). And just making roll faster/farther would work very well too. On the contrary, though, I would argue how you don't see the plus sides to a cancelable bad attack. Specifically for Samus's up-smash. It's arguably one of the worst moves in the game. Because of the low range, priority, and huge cool-down time. The first hits connect just fine, the only problem is you can't do anything quick enough from them and instead you get punished. I guess what I mean to say is the first half of up-smash is a good move. It's the last half that needs work. Adding a cancel to it would do neither of your predictions because: 1: There would be reason to use the move. It would make a lot of sense to up-smash with the first couple of hits then cancel into a n-air/up-air/b-air. 2: Up-smash is STILL a terrible move for any situation except when the opponent is directly on top of you. It wont hit medium sized characters standing in front of her. It still has terrible start-up time. You wont win a match by spamming up-smash because it's not like Fox's, Mario's, Marth's, Wolf's or Zelda's up-smash where you would often choose-up-smash instead of forward/down-smash, so I disagree with your two points. |
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03/03/2011, 07:42 PM
Post: #27
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The Up-Smash could just be changed, similar to how MK's was. It could just me the 3rd hit, which also shoots a projectile upwards. Also, for the roll, it could only be interruptable at a certain time. For instance, if you are still holding shield in the middle of the roll, it drops a bomb and is interrupted, but it can only be interrupted on a certain frame.
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03/03/2011, 08:00 PM
Post: #28
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You cannot make the charge shot shoot upwards after usmash unless you want charge shot to always shoot like that.
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03/03/2011, 11:12 PM
Post: #29
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Not the charge shot. I meant a new projectile. Or, her Side-B could only shoot the Smash Side-B and the Up-Smash could be the homing missiles. Or the other way around. Or neither.
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03/03/2011, 11:36 PM
Post: #30
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that's just stupid. just make usmash connect properly and it'll be fine.
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03/04/2011, 01:33 AM
Post: #31
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That move hasn't connected properly since the first Smash Bros.! It seems... haughty of us to think we could ever make it connect properly now. You play with that fire and you're gonna get burned, even if it does deal ice damage now! Samus' up smash is beyond mortal control, no man should ever try to make it actually hit things lest he incur the wrath of Sakurai. ...Though making the final hit bigger would probably work, I've never liked Samus' upsmash. It looks awkward, isn't remotely similar to anything she does in the games, and really doesn't make much sense. It just doesn't feel... Samus-y. Of course, A Samus-y Samus wouldn't be floaty, couldn't hold beam charges, and would have missiles that fire faster then Fox's laser, so I guess whatever. |
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03/06/2011, 03:01 AM
Post: #32
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(03/02/2011 12:43 PM)Isaac Wrote: Just make the last hit of usmash bigger? Cancellable is not the way to go, as it still leaves the move useless. It just lets you choose another move sooner.I agree wholeheartedly that u-smash being instantly cancelable to anything is a bad idea, and that tech/situational cancels only to a specific move are far superior. If your options out of u-smash are identical to just standing at neutral, then optimally-played Samus will just have a constant 4% hitbox chilling above her forehead whenever she's standing at neutral. Great: u-smash properly linking into the final freezing hitbox. Also great: press up-B* during u-smash and it will, after the third hitbox, cancel into a Screw Attack. SUPER GREAT: If u-smash properly linked AND could be canceled into up-B*. *or swap out up-B canceling for jump-canceling, or down-B canceling, or some other single move. (03/04/2011 01:33 AM)Thunda-Moo Wrote: That move hasn't connected properly since the first Smash Bros.! It seems... haughty of us to think we could ever make it connect properly now. You play with that fire and you're gonna get burned, even if it does deal ice damage now! Samus' up smash is beyond mortal control, no man should ever try to make it actually hit things lest he incur the wrath of Sakurai.I actually find the u-smash KINDA Samus-y. She's blasting hitboxes around in an arc above her head, which recalls the diagonal and upwards aim she can do in her games. And when she fires a Charged Shot in Metroid Fusion, there's a large energy backlash that flares out from her gun-arm that actually has a hitbox on it; the u-smash sacrifices actual shots for doing a bunch of energy flares in a row that combo into each other! ...well, true, the u-smash hitboxes don't currently link into each other. And perhaps that way iceburnt madness lies! But fight the good fight and make u-smash link! I think Samus is quite floaty in every one of her games besides Fusion and Zero Mission, which used the same engine. Super Metroid and Other M are my current iconic incarnations of Samus, and she's quite floaty in both. She's likewise floaty in the original Metroid, Metroid II, and the whole Prime trilogy; floatiness is a little moot in Prime Pinball; and no idea about Hunters. HOWEVER, I would very much appreciate if Samus's shorthop height were significantly decreased. Not quite short enough that "shorthop to instant z-air" hits Squirtle, but maybe to a little less than half the clearance of her fullhop. I think that'd solve the problems you're calling "too much floatiness". (True she IS more floaty in Brawl than in any of her games, but I don't think it's anywhere near the disparity you're positing.) |
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