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My ideas for 1.5 Fox
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07/22/2010, 03:01 AM
Post: #21
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The hitbox size already has been increased, I fear for the balance we are striving for if it get's increased any further. :O (I was talking from 1.0-1.5 fyi)
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07/22/2010, 06:07 AM
Post: #22
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I didn't know that. Hmm, all I know is that fox is picking up attention in Sweden, I fear for playing him since it might ruin my melee fox D: This is your discussion guys. |
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07/22/2010, 04:27 PM
Post: #23
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Well, I am trying to get Fox more Melee like as is, Shine and Nair have already gotten hitbox size increases, and Bair was changed to a sex kick. U throw needs to combo more naturally, Jab1 should pop people up depending on weight at higher percents, Nair needs either damage or knockback alterations. Any other Melee alterations? |
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07/22/2010, 04:34 PM
Post: #24
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I'm still gonna stand by my original ideas, plus the nair changes. Wouldn't hurt to give him vBrawl dthrow back, would it? That way he'd be like a cool mix of the better attributes from both games rather than strictly Melee. |
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07/22/2010, 05:10 PM
Post: #25
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I just don't want it to combo into an upsmash every time, it would be very bland, and way too effective. If it was DI dependant, then I'm sure people would just DI in/up rather than down/out because that way they will just get Uaired, or hit with Bair/Nair(happens anyways from Uthrow) Nothing more can be cancelled out of Illusion without making it OP, or stall very effectively, making it faster I would hope to be a last resort. Shine IS bigger, and I do not support the hitbox getting any bigger than it's current rendition. Nair should be able to kill, but having it be a kill move? Don't you think that would just polarize Fox to use Nair all the time? |
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07/22/2010, 05:15 PM
Post: #26
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Fox's nair killing at 120 would help him live up to his glass cannon properties. Dthrow shouldn't always combo to up smash, no way. Just at lower percents for an easy textbook string, or only at higher percents for a good kill setup. |
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07/22/2010, 06:02 PM
Post: #27
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If the grabbed person does not DI the throw, it leads to waveshine. Which leads to almost anything. When I play my friends (worse scrubs than I am) they manage to DI every time. If you manage to grab someone in the middle of a combo and dthrow before they react, it will combo into Usmash. If they DI, it really isn't a very useful move. New idea: Z canceling. This would make Fox a lot more technical wihle giving him the buff he needs to be one of the better players. You all say that Fox should be a mix off all the games (which I agree with), but you guys ignore the one game I'm actually good at. Seriously, I don't have a Gamecube or a Wii. I've never played Melee and can only play Brawl at friends houses. At my house, I can play ssb64 until my fingers bleed. As a result, that's the only game I'm good at (solid 5B player). I don't think that Z canceling would make him OP or even top tier, and it really increases his technical skill. Sorry about the rant on my sad life. |
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07/22/2010, 07:09 PM
Post: #28
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He doesn't need Z cancelling, he already has ZERO landing lag on all aerials and landings. Z cancelling would do nothing as he already has no landing lag.
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07/22/2010, 07:17 PM
(This post was last modified: 07/22/2010 07:20 PM by Doom.)
Post: #29
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filbert: I meant Brawl dthrow Also, you can tech the dthrow to ensure no guaranteed followups whatsoever anyway. |
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07/22/2010, 07:24 PM
(This post was last modified: 07/22/2010 07:24 PM by Rkey.)
Post: #30
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(07/22/2010 07:17 PM)Doom Wrote: Also, you can tech the dthrow to ensure no guaranteed followups whatsoever anyway. Not a guaranteed, but you can still tech chase. I tend to do that in melee to make my opponent annoyed =) Also, the spike on the edge, can you combo that into a shine? Or will they just die too quickly? |
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07/22/2010, 07:31 PM
Post: #31
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(07/22/2010 05:15 PM)Doom Wrote: Fox's nair killing at 120 would help him live up to his glass cannon properties.Nair 120 sounds a little low, considering Bair doesn't kill that fast. But yeah, it should definitely have a lot more kill potential than it has now. I'd be more cool with it having setups at low percents, and have Uthrow be better at high percents. Definitely would look cooler than Uthrow-> Uair every single time you get a grab. (07/22/2010 06:02 PM)filbert Wrote: If the grabbed person does not DI the throw, it leads to waveshine. Which leads to almost anything. When I play my friends (worse scrubs than I am) they manage to DI every time. If you manage to grab someone in the middle of a combo and dthrow before they react, it will combo into Usmash. If they DI, it really isn't a very useful move.You can tech D throw, waveshine and upsmash are both not guaranteed. (07/22/2010 07:09 PM)MonkUnit Wrote: He doesn't need Z cancelling, he already has ZERO landing lag on all aerials and landings. Z cancelling would do nothing as he already has no landing lag.This. |
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07/22/2010, 07:35 PM
Post: #32
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Uh, yes. You can still techchase. Pretty poor though, considering there's: tech roll left, tech roll right, tech in place don't tech, roll left, don't tech, roll right, don't tech, stand up, don't tech, getup attack Lots of options to cover, especially when they can end up right in front of you. Some characters with quick boxing options (MK, Ike, Luigi) can jab you before you do anything if you opt not to shield and they tech in place. vBrawl dthrow with modified BKB, KBG, and angles could add a lot to Fox's grab game. |
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07/22/2010, 08:39 PM
(This post was last modified: 07/22/2010 08:40 PM by Rkey.)
Post: #33
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A spontaneus reaction is too tech away from the d-throw. Just read which direction they're going. After that, they will most likely try to do a getup attack, which you can shield and do an u-throw and combo from there. You just wrecked them psychologically, gg. I think that f-htrow could be constucted to do what you're wishing for, or maybe even b-throw. Slo-mo side-b -> d-throw spike is too cool to be left out. I also like wrecking people psychologically :3 |
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07/22/2010, 08:41 PM
(This post was last modified: 07/22/2010 08:42 PM by Doom.)
Post: #34
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Your formula doesn't exactly check out. Maybe if you've got someone's habits down, sure. As far as actual options go? They still have 7 of them. Also, can't you DI behind Fox and tech the dthrow spike anyway? You could in Melee. |
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07/22/2010, 08:49 PM
(This post was last modified: 07/22/2010 08:50 PM by Rkey.)
Post: #35
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Yes, ofc you need to know a pattern. That pattern is pretty general as I see it, but knowing your opponent indeed makes it easier. The thing I'm saying is that removing the current properties of d-throw tp get something else when you could instead have f-throw and/or b-throw do that very same thing would be a waste. Yeah, you probably can, unless fox has the element of surprise. Except if you're playing on FD, I think you can't tech it there. I need to plug in brawl-!! |
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07/22/2010, 09:04 PM
Post: #36
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Thats what I was saying. You can DI away or tech or whatever. Dthrow isn't a very good move if you don't surprise them or they mess up.
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07/22/2010, 11:32 PM
Post: #37
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Or on wifi.
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07/23/2010, 12:00 PM
Post: #38
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How about Z canceling? I really want something added from a game that I'm good at. Adds another bonus for tech skill, it's not OP.
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07/23/2010, 12:19 PM
Post: #39
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(07/23/2010 12:00 PM)filbert Wrote: How about Z canceling? I really want something added from a game that I'm good at. Adds another bonus for tech skill, it's not OP. All of his moves have had their lag reduced by so much that being able to reduce landing lag more would be pointless. Besides, l/z-cancelling is fairly polarizing, and having it in just for one character would be weird. Besides, TSON doesn't like taking from Project M. |
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07/23/2010, 12:21 PM
Post: #40
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There has been numerous discussions about L-canceling in the Brawl+ project, and I took part in those. basically, it comes down to this: Automatic L/Z-cancel is to be preffered, since there really is no point in forcing players to spend a month learning something which becomes automatic muscle memory once they're done practicing anyway. The AT adds nothing to the game, and there's never a situation were you would not want to L/Z cancel. |
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