Alright, I've been playing Brawl Minus for a while now. While playing, I've also done some downloading of alternate movesets and skins from brawlvault.com and other sources. I must say that somethings I've found are rather interesting.
There's a guy on Brawlvault called Quicksilver. He has this version of Ganondorf that can use his taunt to alter his movesets and use swords and crap. While that sounds cool, the actual sword-portion of the moveset is actually pretty terrible. The non-sword part is pretty good however. I was thinking certain aspects of that moveset could be applied to the current BrawlMinus Ganon to make the next version even better. Here is a link to Quicksilver's Ganondorf if you want to try it and see what I mean.
Quicksilver's version:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7YUBMI3L
Below is a list of which moves should be used from which set (again, if anyone is interested in checking this out).
B: Minus Warlock Punch (chance for 700% damage in one hit? Why not?)
>B: Minus Flame Choke (whatever it’s called)
VB: QuickSilver's substitution of Ganon's Warlock Punch, dunno what he called it. However, it is said that it can freeze the game (according to his post on the moveset). So you can change this to something else cool if ya want.
^B: Minus Dark Dive
A: Minus
Tilt>A: Either one
Tilt^A: QuickSilver’s
TiltVA: Minus
Smash>A: Minus (definitely Minus)
Smash^A: QuickSilver’s
SmashVA: Minus (Probably doesn’t matter, but just to be sure)
Dash A: QuickSilver’s (but add the Wizardfoot effects of Minus)
Aerials:
A: QuickSilver’s
ForwardA: QuickSilver’s
Up A: QuickSilver’s
Down A: QuickSilver’s (but add the Wizardfoot effects of Minus)
Back A: Either (but probably QuickSilver’s)
I'd try using Brawlbox myself to get this put together, but the problem with that is I don't know how to use that program and even if I did, I don't know if I need other programs or how to use those! So I'm merely throwing out the suggestion and letting you guys decide if it is good or not.
Thanks for reading, adios.
Um, rather than directing a download link and saying what move you think should be kept, do you think that you could describe what each move does and why it should be changed? It's more useful than having us try to find out for ourselves. Also, this probably won't fly because wholesale plagiarizing hasn't gone over very well on these forums when it's been tried before.
And Ganon's down-b is good as is and I don't know why you would suggest that it should be replaced. It's strong on the ground and in the air, covers a good portion of the stage, is a fair-to-good techchase, and aids his recovery.
Completely agree with Karnith.
Is anything happening with the dtaunt sword? Back before our MVP was banned, GK suggested that the taunt give him the sword moveset. If some genius like Eldiran got on it, I bet it would be really cool.
Plagiarism is bad, m'kay?
How about this:
-Add pointless projectile reflection to the part of up-b when he's turning around. (Make it like OoT GDorf)
-Make wizard's foot use his fists instead and have trip effects upon hitting the ground. (Also borrowed from OoT)
-Give him a projectile attack for tap-b. (an energy ball) Leave WP alone on hold-b.
-Make utilt use his sword. (reflavor)
(07/29/2010 10:25 PM)Beefster Wrote: [ -> ]How about this:
-Add pointless projectile reflection to the part of up-b when he's turning around. (Make it like OoT GDorf)
-Make wizard's foot use his fists instead and have trip effects upon hitting the ground. (Also borrowed from OoT)
-Give him a projectile attack for tap-b. (an energy ball) Leave WP alone on hold-b.
-Make utilt use his sword. (reflavor)
UpB reflector sounds stupid, but would help his recovery a little. Eh...it would make too little sense to add in, though. lol
Don't think he needs his Wiztruck to be changed, IMO.
Tapping Warlock Punch for a projectile is actually a pretty cool idea. Good call.
Manon doesn't really need his sword to be badass, but w/e. Personally, I think Utilt is fine. Not the best move ever, but can surprise people if you're clever enough.
Up B reflect I second the stupidity, but it'd be funny if you could actually put it to good use vs someone.
Wiz kick is fine imo but a bigger landing splash for tripping or just how the splash damage is now might be an alright idea...
tap warlock punch... Hmmm... you mean like... hold it for a warlock punch (like DK gets his barrels) then tap it to shoot some energy balls or something? I like the idea.... or! you could make the tap version a rolling side smash explody thing and make the held one the one shot kill version of devilness.
As for uptilt although it's a powerful move, maybe it could be made more helpful with a bigger explosion?
Apparently, explosions fit Manon's character. He's so strong that his moves causes the molecules in the air to viciously rip apart. Hell, make ALL of his moves create explosions. There's your Manon buffs, right there.
...this post is also stupid.
(07/30/2010 12:39 AM)ItsRainingGravy Wrote: [ -> ]Apparently, explosions fit Manon's character. He's so strong that his moves causes the molecules in the air to viciously rip apart. Hell, make ALL of his moves create explosions. There's your Manon buffs, right there.
...this post is also stupid.
uhh...sarcasm? or seriously? ... I'll take it sarcasm, but explosions are always fun just to throw that out there... actually, maybe that could be decent. F-air with a sweetspot that makes an explosion just for the lols anyone? or when the d-air drives into the stage another explosion with light knockback also for the lolz?
(07/30/2010 12:46 AM)Darkmega Wrote: [ -> ]uhh...sarcasm? or seriously?
Serious about my post being stupid, and explosions fitting Manon. Sarcastic about everything else I said.
MOAR EXPLOSIOOOOONS!!
...why the hell didn't I go to bed 2 hours ago? >_< lol
I second having copious amounts of explosions.
(07/30/2010 12:58 AM)ItsRainingGravy Wrote: [ -> ] (07/30/2010 12:46 AM)Darkmega Wrote: [ -> ]uhh...sarcasm? or seriously?
Serious about my post being stupid, and explosions fitting Manon. Sarcastic about everything else I said.
MOAR EXPLOSIOOOOONS!!
...why the hell didn't I go to bed 2 hours ago? >_< lol
BIG GAY-- *facepalm!* lol. ok, we'll make ganon the physics man. anyone he attacks, blows up. XD
Well, the up-smash is an attack that releases an aura around him. It hits everyone around him (from what I remember) and it was a much better attack than simply kicking straight up in the air because you were more likely to hit what you were going after.
The up-air had a similar movement to his up-special. It just doesn't grab on to people like the up-special. It also has a bigger particle effect when used too.
The reason why down-special should be changed to something is because the wizard's foot makes more sense as a dash attack and/or down-air. Same effect as wizard foot now, just relocated to different buttons to Ganon a different special that makes him even less of a Falcon Clone and also gives him some range as well (because I've read complaints about how he has too much trouble vs. range). I dunno what to change down-special to... probably just something else entirely. Maybe like a dark wave that reflects things if timed correctly (similar to Falco's but a bubble dark wave around Ganon, not just in front of him... i dunno).
His forward-air now has elemental effects (random) much like Link's arrows.
Neutral-air is faster and does (I think) 3 kicks. It might just be two.
In short, the combination of these movesets would vastly improve Ganon's air-game and perhaps even give him some range to deal with the character's he has most trouble with. At least something to make him feel more like the evil wizard Ganondorf we remember from Zelda and not just a guy using Falcon's moves but stronger, slower, and more evil looking.
Pierce7d on SmashBoards Wrote:Ganondorf's SideB should be jump cancel-able. This single change will make him viable/on par with the rest of the cast IMO. Oh, and this isn't absolutely necessary, but move the IASA frames for punch to 1 frame before the hitbox comes out. This way, the opponent can't just punish an accidental punch with OHKO on Ganon. Normally, I'm all for punishing mistakes, but I don't believe it was intended for the punch to K.O. Ganon on block in the first place.
Not a bad idea, IMO. Not so sure about the Warlock Punch change, though.
I like side b cancelling... make only aerial choke jump cancellable though.
Otherwise the input might be too simple and spammable.
True. SideB having a jump cancel would be spammable for the fact that it would be much quicker than dashing, and because it has HA properties. Even so, Manon still gets spammed at by projectile characters anyways. Leave the HA properties for his dash attack, and let him jump cancel all versions of SideB, perhaps? I think it really could help poor Manon out...but yeah, probably would end up being cheap, lol.
****, why does jump canceling B moves make then so GOOD? It's insane how so many moves could benefit from having one simple change. o_O
*thinks about this....* semi infinite recovery ganon? nice. lol, caus then you can go (If I'm understanding and thinking right:
Side B jump cancel, keep momentum side B, down B, side B jump, Side B repeat so you could have a semi flying ganon on stages where you got uber launched and got plenty of space... I like it. lol
I've thought about that too, and even though I might be wrong, I don't think it would really work out that well. Better recovery? Probably. Infinite recovery? Probably not. If you're going to SideB at the end of DownB, that'll already put you at the stage line or below it (unless you're at the top blast line or something rare like that). If you're going to jump cancel DownB then go to SideB, you won't have any jumps to cancel the SideB (Manon only has one aerial jump, after all), which is also quite laggy. At best, you would be sent flying off the stage (and not die), SideB, use your only aerial jump to cancel the SideB, DownB, and then you'll have one extra jump...but you'll then be forced to jump cancel the DownB, or wait until the end of DownB to go into another SideB, and then jump cancel that. In the end, it'll just send Manon going diagonally down at a fast rate. Could be useful, but not really all that good.
Approaching people with SideB juking cancels will be the best benefit from this. They'll either have to jump or roll, to which you could punish with a jump cancel, and then follow up with an aerial, another SideB for mindgames, or something crazy like that. If anything, this would be the reason why it would be too good...because of that, I think Isaac's suggestion of only letting aerial SideB have a jump cancel would be the best solution if it ever was implemented. Well, hell, I guess that makes my previous post null after all...rofl. Let grounded SideB have the HA properties, and possibly give aerial SideB jump canceling shenanigans. Does aerial SideB even have HA properties? I dunno...
Thought I had something else to say...but I can't remember anymore. Oh well. I type too much, anyways. lol
aerial doesn't seem to. cause I remember getting gimped out of it by samus's missiles when I was vsing her once... but the ground one went through them. but ok then, so Heavier HA on ground (tank through those projectiles!) and jump canceling aerial Side B... I'm just imagining a combo i could do with this right now... cause if you cancel, do you keep the momentum from the Side B?
(08/01/2010 09:01 PM)Darkmega Wrote: [ -> ]aerial doesn't seem to. cause I remember getting gimped out of it by samus's missiles when I was vsing her once... but the ground one went through them. but ok then, so Heavier HA on ground (tank through those projectiles!) and jump canceling aerial Side B... I'm just imagining a combo i could do with this right now... cause if you cancel, do you keep the momentum from the Side B?
THAT's what I forgot.
ROFL. But, anyways...jump canceling seems to remove any momentum from the attack it cancels, so no. It'll just transfer over to how a character normally moves in the air. Attack canceling (ROB's SideB into any of his aerials), on the other hand, is one of the things that will keep aerial momentum going...but doesn't seem to work on the ground.
Actually, that could also be another possible solution. Let the aerial version be canceled into anything other than a B move, and let the ground version have HA and possibly be canceled only by attacks (again, other than B moves)?