Ganon's solid atm. Mid tier probably. Not amazing by any stretch of the imagination, though.
Ganondorf:
- This guy just can't be great in any version of Brawl, and it's a shame. He has lots of cool gimmicks, but he's awful offstage and his frame data kinda sucks. Buff his grab range and possibly the speed of his jab. His aerials just feel so awkward, dunno what to do about that.
- Give him P:M's dashing hack! The dude looks like an asshole when he runs.
Not much to work with here. It just seems like Ganon's layout can never be too good. If he had bigger grab range, he could have some cool throw combos. Reduce the obscene damage on the throws to make this a fair change. Jab could use another speed buff. Make it come out on frame 5 or 4.
Autocancel uair would be sick. Maybe bair instead.
That's it. After that, Ganon's pretty awesome.
I'm pretty sure Uair and Bair already autocancel in a SH and that jab is frame 5 iirc. Also you should see his pivot grab reach (and laugh meniacally).
I'm talking about when he hits the ground, 0 lag. No matter what. Uair/bair -> jab would be a cool block string.
I see. That would lead to free grabs though. I guess a bigger autocancel window could be looked into. Bair already has a massive autocancel window, but hits too high to abuse it as an approach except vs other tall characters. More active frames would somewhat solve the problem without extending the hitbox. What do you think?
Ganon is already a beast right now that fits his character.
He's the endboss, and one mistake will have you horribly, HORRIBLY punished for it.
He's also REALLY good at baiting in this since he's faster with better range.
If you want to give him something, fAir landing lag has a darkness shockwave reminiscent of Zelda games.
And I've heard some talk about him in the backroom, but I won't say more~
Ganondorf is definitely a focus. He screams Minus, with all the purple and badass and "imma fuck you up"
...my own suggestion I just came up with: Let him fly around during uTaunt, and cancel on...Frame 40?
OR make it reflect :3
How do people feel about d-taunt sword Ganon? Keep in mind we don't necessarily have to make his drawn sword behave as a beam sabre -- we can do whatever we want.
If Ganon's going to have a sword, it should be literally his entire moveset reworked to fit it. Otherwise I don't like the idea.
Uair/bair with no landing lag -> grab would actually be a true combo on shields? Ganon's grab is frame 8, something makes me doubt there's actually enough stun for that to work before they can spot dodge/roll or maybe even grab him. He'd be able to do monster damage to shields with jab, and he'd get a lot of mixups on block either way. Plus, what's so bad about him getting a free grab out of it?
There are already multiple SubActions for different swinging weapons.
All we have to do is add stuff that adds hitboxes to his article, maybe redo the animations.
However this will make the Peach matchup interesting
(She can spawn Beam Swords and they WILL have the changes applied to them)
In short, he will keep his current moveset, the sword will just give him a second set.
Actually, we can just put a hitbox on the article that never terminates, so that his regular animations swing the sword around with him...hm.
Trying to think about how we can get him to fling the sword around with aerials...Eldi can probably manage it without a hitch.
Give him P:M's dashing hack! The dude looks like an asshole when he runs.
^ this
I think we should tone down upb's knockback and damage, but buff the height it goes.
I say make it do 15% and about half the knockback, killing at around 70-90 ish.
This will buff his balls-out edgeguard game, make him harder to gimp(cause spikes wreck him pretty hard)
Also make wizard foot do less knockback, but ALWAYS ledge cancel.
it kills a little too early imo. I understand its punishable, and not OP. But i think it would make ganondorf an overall more technical character, as well as it feeling less cheap when you predict someone and kill them at a dumb ass percent with a pretty safe prediction.
ganon is high tier in b-
he has the best tech chase game in smash history.
one of the longest reaching disjointed smashes....
WP
his recovery is as gay as mk, pit, or falco's because of down b
footstool+wizkick
probably the best anti-planking moveset
the only real problem i have with him is in b+ and brawl he can ko upward out of a tech chase with dair and he cant in minus
isn't it wizkick + footstool? ;o
i believe ganon is high tier too.
good recovery but not incredibly gay like MKs ._.
The one thing I'd like to see:
Quake->Jump->Ganoncide. Or more things that can lead to Ganoncide in general.
(07/21/2010 11:58 PM)Muhznit Wrote: [ -> ]The one thing I'd like to see:
Quake->Jump->Ganoncide. Or more things that can lead to Ganoncide in general.
How about d-throw, it combo's to side b, right?
Yes but not to aerial side b unless at high percents plus/or bad DI.
So i had an idea, what if we made ganondorf's ledge jump act as the super jump glitch?
Or just make the ledge jump go much higher. His options for getting off the ledge do suck because they all are verrrry slow.
I'm against touching the ledge jump because of his ledge jump > choke, not sure how viable it will still be if we touch the ledge jump.
And if not, give him a way to use the super jump glitch more viably without having to spend hours trying to master it and being incredibly punishable if failed.
This would do a few things...
1: Make warlock more viable due to it's momentum. Both as an edgeguard, and landing option.
2: Make him able to avoid projectiles better, and get over them.
3: Incredible follow-ups, and chases.
4: mindgamez mang. mindgames.
And possibly more.
I currently can't see it being too OP, but maybe a little dumb. The only way it would make sense would be because his arms are so strong, so that's why he goes higher than everyone else?
(07/26/2010 05:04 PM)Isaac Wrote: [ -> ]His options for getting off the ledge do suck because they all are verrrry slow.
Try ledgehop uair, it ACs if you do it right. It's called the flipman.
(07/26/2010 10:13 PM)Rkey Wrote: [ -> ] (07/26/2010 05:04 PM)Isaac Wrote: [ -> ]His options for getting off the ledge do suck because they all are verrrry slow.
Try ledgehop uair, it ACs if you do it right. It's called the flipman.
I'm well aware of the flipman my friend, it still isn't that good.
The superior ledge jump will pretty much let him purple pawnch his way to the opponent.
Is there any particular reason uair has landing lag? Can we just get rid of it?
by ledgehopping do you mean when your holding the ledge then press jump or do you mean when you tap back or down then jump on stage?
the first one:
ganons pretty average in this and WK/gerudo make for good mix ups and imho he doesnt need a change
the second one:
spacing, spacing, spacing.
also yeah... uair has landing lag lolwtf?