I am convinced that Ness is an astonishingly good doubles partner for a lot of characters. His high priority, long range, frame trap set ups, and ability to disrupt combos easily with his Dair all make him hard to keep oppressed and allow him to jump in and help his partner easily. Meanwhile his massive power hits can cause huge ruptures in the midst of a doubles match.
PK Fire becomes even better when it can help Jigglypuff set up rests or Fox land a U-smash.
plus you can attempt to save recovering partners with PKT1 and possibly PKF
(05/06/2012 03:05 PM)Kink-Link5 Wrote: [ -> ]I am convinced that Ness is an astonishingly good doubles partner for a lot of characters. His high priority, long range, frame trap set ups, and ability to disrupt combos easily with his Dair all make him hard to keep oppressed and allow him to jump in and help his partner easily. Meanwhile his massive power hits can cause huge ruptures in the midst of a doubles match.
PK Fire becomes even better when it can help Jigglypuff set up rests or Fox land a U-smash.
Eh, I mean I don't see it like that. I think he's good in teams, but not the best option. Also, why are you saying PK Fire "helps" Jigglypuff rest? The fire will also hurt her. (I'm assuming team attack it on.)
PK Fire is basically a soft reset, can be easily DI read, and does not have an overly large hitbox such that jigglypuff could not hit the opponent out of the move.
So basically, Puff eats the fire but still gets it in.
Man, I'm really trying to think who would Ness be good on teams with, but I think he's just a well rounded teammate.
I haven't tried many Ness teams, but I have found that Ness teaming with Falco, Ike (who doesn't do well with Ike=???), and Marth is feels just "right." Like it's easy-ish to do team combos with them.
I thought about this for a little bit, and I've changed my mind on how good Ness is in teams. His ability to support his team mate, as well as control space on stage is definitely solid. He can break combos with his quick nairs and dairs, and has many quick gimping options, an asset that is very useful in teams.
However, Ness' recovery (like ususal) holds him back. Not because it is easily edge guarded against, but because how slow it is. A common strategy used by top doubles teams is to get the character with the slower recovery (such as Marth, Peach) off stage and then to focus on the other player. It turns into a 2v1 until the recovering player makes it back to the stage (With higher dmg, to be knocked further, alowing for a longer 2v1 the next time.)
@ Soft Serve (the last post on the last page)
Ness' slow recovery is big weakness of his in teams, definitely. Because of that, I think having solid defensive teammates who know how to space (and run away?) are best suited for teaming with Ness. That and counter-pick in teams with stages with a lot of room for your teammate to navigate with (without getting cornered and teamed on) in the meantime.
However, I wasn't as worried about that issue as much as opponents in teams getting hit by PK Thunder to make you fall helplessly to your death. I think that is Ness' biggest teams difficulty. This is an issue with Ness in singles, for sure, but in teams, this issue is much worse, especially against elite players.
Overall, I (mostly) agree Soft Serve. I'm not really sold on the prospect of Ness on teams. Sure he's got some upside. Ness in my somewhat brief experience has got the ability to combo pretty well with teammates, get kills opponents via teammates fairly naturally, setup kills for teammates quite well, and recover damage with his down B.
However, none of those strengths come close to cover up his issues revolving with his recovery. That is unless of course you got a teammate who is extraordinary at running away in 2v1's... >.<
I do agree Ness has issues, but there are many more characters I would feel far less comfortable teaming up with. The best combinations seem to be partners who can abuse Ness's projectiles like Mario and Lucas. Zelda is also really good at comboing with Ness thanks to bair, fair, and uair demolishing anyone who DIs wrong out of Ness's dthrow. And her DF mines are great at both setting Ness up for aDJC follow up or little packets of recovery if/when he has time. Jiggly, as mentioned earlier, can get free Rests on peeps trapped in PKF. Pit works well since he has little trouble moving away from enemies, can bdown in the middle of bneutrals, and help Ness back with arrows. However, Ness rarely compliments his partner's weaknesses and usually ends up total support or total offense. I'd rather take a Falcon in most situations :/