Oh, Game & Watch... The PMBR really put forth a valiant effort in trying to make this char viable. They made all of his aerials L-cancellable, they gave him a usable shield, they even gave him the unique benefits of being able to bacon cancel and act out of his upB. They didn't fail, so to speak; G&W did become a viable char now, but he simply did not receive enough tools to allow him to catch up with the rest of the cast. His 'glass cannon' design is overbearingly flawed when it comes to the risk/reward part of his gameplay.
G&W has the ability to perform devastating combos out of a grab or dtilt that rack up a lot of damage and also end in reliable KOs. In addition, his grab can easily be combo'd into from a jab. However, akin to Melee, G&W still has a bit of trouble getting in to land that first hit needed to start a combo. His mobility is top-notch, but the safeness of his moves most definitely is not. At neutral, G&W's only safe moves are probably jab, bair, and dtilt. Bacon cancelling seems like it could help this problem, but the random trajectories of each bacon piece keep this move from being a reliable choice for approaching. Instead, bacon becomes more useful as a walling device, which is somewhat contradictory to the nature of G&W's gameplay design. All of this means that G&W will be working very hard for all his kills, but this effort is completely offset by the ease in which G&W is KO'd. He's extremely light and very easy to combo. This problem is magnified by his mostly vertical recovery which becomes nearly useless if G&W is launched any considerable distance away from the stage.
G&W requires a lot of risk and effort to score KOs throughout the entire duration of his matches for relatively little reward due to how easy it is to kill him in return. He can hit hard, but his 'glass cannon' aspect is a little too glassy. As such, I think it is fitting that G&W be placed at the bottom of the tier list as of now.
It should also be noted that G&W's dthrow no longer combos into nair like it did in Melee. This is a considerable nerf, IMO. Tech chases are nice, but G&W doesn't really have much to chase with, outside of grab, dash attack and......Judgement.
Uthrow is not nearly as useful for the same reason it's not as useful in Melee. At high %'s (death %'s), it's nearly impossible to combo anyone that isn't a fast-faller with uthrow. In Melee, this was the point where G&W's would completely transition from uthrow to dthrow.
I don't know, I feel like the PMBR went wild with giving people TC dthrows. Melee already gave us the spacees, Jiggs, Marth, DK, Bowser, and Kirby for that. Now we've got G&W, Snake, Wario, DDD, Wolf, Charizard, and probably MK to add to the mix. Whatever happened to those good old dthrows that were used for setting up kills at high %'s where everything else pretty much failed?
(08/13/2012 01:45 PM)ImaClubYou Wrote: [ -> ]Well, that sucks for G&W. I don't even find his tech chase good, but that's just becuase he feels janky to me no matter how many times I play him.
Exactly my point. G&W's tech chase isn't even good. All his options kinda suck. One of the reasons why G&W is the worst in the game right now, imo.
No. If people DI up and behind Wario, they can land with a wavedash or jump or whatever they want, and they're not really close enough to safely follow up with anything but generic pressure.
(08/13/2012 01:49 PM)Bubbaking Wrote: [ -> ]Whatever happened to those good old dthrows that were used for setting up kills at high %'s where everything else pretty much failed?
Also, was Luigi able to shorthop fireball waveland in melee? Because he can in P:M and I've determined that it's amazing for both camping and approaching, and that by itself would put him several places higher in my tier list.
Because Luigi can slide just ahead of or just behind the fireball depending on how you angle the wavelanding. Meaning he can attack just before it hits or just after they cancel it out, depending.
