I agree that Pit's pretty good. I certainly think he has the potential to move up a few spots in my B-tier.
Also, I'm not too sure but I may have sold Luigi a bit short.
Let's just all agree that SFTP's tier list is the semi-"official" tier list for now.
Okay? Okay.
/thread
With pits arrows, he can approach. He can gimp Fox/Falco/Wolf probably better than Marth can.
He also has to work harder for it and dies quicker than marth. Also no guaranteed uthrow CG and much less range to keep them out with.
Just saying.
Tru dat. He also probably has the worst recovery out of all the multi-jump characters from below so gimping can be a chore with his janky UpB.
Pit also can't space like Marth.
But he has arrows, probably the best projectile in the game. He can make you approach so he doesn't have to prioritize on spacing so much.
If you aren't prioritizing spacing you aren't playing the game well.
I dunno, he's got a fair point about arrows being good. Spacing is still a key point obviously, but arrows are highly abusable.
Pit has fantastic tools for carrying his opponent off stage and deals damage like a boss. I think his major shortcoming is that he's not easy to use. Controlling your arrows to hit constantly isn't always easy, and it's pretty much something that's required to extend combos and keep people dead.
I still personally think he's A tier material. He's got the tools, he's just difficult to use. And if he's low because of difficulty, then Fox shouldn't be top. Just sayin.
Pit's arrows are overrated. They don't have TP like Falco's laser.
Pit's arrows combo into stuff mid combo. If you're out of reach the arrows combo into more arrows until you get within reach. DI or not since they can be controlled.
Agreed, but I wasn't referring to their ability to extend combos. Falco's lasers are so potent because they can only be disposed of with disjointed hitboxes or powershields. Any attack will do for Pit's arrows. This makes using them for spacing a lesser option.
As for DI mid-combo, as long as you aim down and away, you'll eventually be able to perform your fastest aerial. This should theoretically be an option to break arrow juggles.
Yea B.W. but if that was the case then lucario wouldn't be B tier in that list either if u allowed that to apply to pit.
Why wouldn't Lucario be B tier? Just wondering.
Lucario is not anywhere close to comparable to Fox and requires substantially less tech skill. When Lucario can go from camping to gimping at 20% to rapidly moving about the opponent's safe spacing area to getting kills off the top of any grab past 60%, he can be comparable. Until then he is a mixup-heavy approach-based character with decent retreating space options who can't use aggressive pressure safely until he deals 50% from moves other than aura sphere. Lucario is absolutely a middle tier character with tools to do things but a very straightforward playstyle that lacks the flexibility of top threats.
Being middle tier isn't bad, and Lucario is like, the epitome of middle; 14 characters ahead of him, 14 characters behind him.
@devicer
Actually the only thing that will deal with falco's lasers are a shield or a hurtbox.
His lasers have transcendant priority, meaning they don't interract with the hitboxes of other moves. So you'd need to make it hit a hurtbox (like Shiek's needles have) in order to be rid of it.
Nevermind. Had a momentary lapse of reason. Too much hex lately...
I wanted to know Kaiten's reason for placement. In talk of projectiles Kaiten added to the discussion with Lucario which I'm assuming is about Aura Sphere.
(07/26/2012 01:12 PM)Jockmaster Wrote: [ -> ]^I feel that the debate just became too subjective. We just need some solid results to be able to organize our thoughts on a tier list more effectively. You can only TheoryBros so much
I said that we need results to make an accurate tier list before and cited several examples from other games, but apparently, some people think that results shouldn't influence a tier list much... :/
jons
The problem with citing tourney results is that developing a solid meta for characters takes time. The more established characters can be picked up faster if you fall on their established game. Similarly, the tricks certain newcomers possess aren't properly documented or known. There's a million things that affect match outcomes right now that shouldn't be included in weighing the potential of a character in the present. PM tourneys are mostly taken to be a joke. You need an invested group of players and years to develop a proper scene. Until then, this "data" is only useful for giving us some kind of notion as to where characters fall in a metagame likely to change in the near future.