Pretty sure he was kinda just kidding around lol
Lucario's good, not broken at all, though.
(06/25/2012 04:00 AM)Kink-Link5 Wrote: [ -> ]Having no range
Stopped reading there. We must be playing different games.
^IKR?
Lucario had good range in vBrawl, and from what I can tell, it's only gotten better. I sometimes have to tip-toe around the furry with Marth. MARTH GODDAMMIT!
I think I WD'd away from lucario once and he still hit me with his FSmash lol
THAT move has some misleading range lol
yeah fsmash has a lot of range on it
Jabs 1 and 2, d-tilt, d-smash, f-smash, d-air, and b-air all have way more range than they appear to have, especially f-smash.
His being punishable on block is pretty much negated by the fact that his side-b grab takes people out of their shield, and it's a safe option so long as you don't try to chain it beyond one hit. He doesn't have to work that hard for kills once you learn how to set up his kills. And his Double Team cancels are amazing for chasing your opponent after hitting with an f-smash.
Lucario isn't broken, but he's not as helpless as you make him out to be. He has power, and pressures very well, once he's in your space really is pretty scary, but he does have trouble with good spacing, but if you can get aura stocks you can help deal with that thanks to cancelling into smashes.
Also, I'd like to say Lucario becomes severely limited if his player doesn't react quickly to the opponents actions. You can keep a combo going for a long time and a lot of his moves set up for a nice powerful b-air, but in order to do that you have to be able to follow your opponents DI during your links. Sounds like typical smash right? The thing that makes this a little harder though is that the opponent is normally a lot closer to the ground so they're much closer to being able to tech than most characters have to deal with. Lucario is also severely limited if his player isn't creative and is unable to combo off of any hit then he's not going to be very good either.
Lucario does in fact have some pretty good range, and I would add Lucario's F-air to that list as well. I will also agree that lucario is only going to be as good as his player is, however I don't think lucario requires so much reaction as anticipation for the most part. I'd say personally it's 70% anticipation and 30% (Maybe 60/40 at the most in my opinion) Reaction with him as you try to start something or try to pressure your opponent into doing what it is you want them too. Leading to the tech chase or the extended combo... etc. Other than that I think quite a few of his moves set you up pretty nicely to continue pretty well.
Other than that I believe B.W. really is spot on. Who know's though, maybe i am reacting but i always feel as tho i'm really trying to anticipate what my opponent is going to do as well as follow up correctly.
Lucario's moves are pretty below average. When put into combos however...
I never made Lucario out to be hopeless by any stretch. Lucario still has bad range and I am not going to take that comment back.
"...Lucario is not the scary jackal you make him out to be..."
"...Lucario is not as helpless as you make him out to be..."
I actually agree with Kink. But I also don't think Lucario needs more or less range. I think he's fine as is and his fsmash covers an appropriate distance.
The more I play this game though, the more I feel that a tier list is silly. Nobody is broken, but almost everyone is good and matchups matter. What stands out more is the characters who fall behind the rest of the cast. Then again, it's still too early to tell and I think the BR definitely came to the right conclusion that the meta needs to develop before we can determine who truly needs buffed and who doesn't.
No one is saying people need buffs.
It's just fun to speculate where characters will be when something official is released.
Why do people think that this thread is for SERIOUSLY trying to make an official tier list? This isn't srsbusinessBRdiscussion. It's just for fun and to poke at curiosity.
^
I think the title of this thread should be named "Tier List Opinions" rather than "Tier List Speculation" that'd help make things clear probably.
I think most people understand that pretty well. But who isn't having fun here? That's the reason most come to these boards, right? To discuss/enjoy themselves in the community?
The OP title change is probably a good idea, regardless though. It is a little misleading to guests and new users.
The point of the thread is to see what people think of each character in comparison to each other. Seeing this game is new (and not completed), we can still shove our horrible tier lists up here without being flamed because nobody knows all of the tricks and gimmicks yet.
Ganondorf seems to be placed really far down in the tier list. His ftilt is rape, his jab is a good follow-up to b-side, plus it's a good GTFO move. I know that in my friendlies matches, Ganon is a force to be reckoned with.
When I play as Charizard, my main problem is shifting momentum. He is easily rushed, and really has no GTFO moves that come out quick enough. If he has momentum himself though, his combos are awesome.
Wario seems to be the worst character so far IMO. His game consists of a few mixups with punishable moves. His b-side and dash grab are both risky, and there are ways for most characters to punish wario, even if they don't know which of his mixup moves he is going to use.
I put Ganon has mid A tier in my tier list.. lol
And Wario isn't that bad if you play him like Jigglypuff. Don't constantly throw yourself at your opponent as a Wario, just stay in the air and weave.
Charizard doesn't seem that great though. His jab and dthrow are on the right track, but I honestly don't know what people were thinking giving him that dash attack. It's like DK's old one, kinda useless and really slow, not to mention that it looks really out of character for someone like charizard. If charizard had something like Sheiks dash attack, that would be MUCH better, as it would pop them up, be really fast, and he could techchase with it.
A faster glide and more options out of it would be good. Giving his up-B more knockback would be really great so that he could use it OoS at low %, and he needs a bit more power in that move, perhaps a bit more recovery distance too.
Anyways, this isn't a "suggest changes" thread, it's a tier list speculation thread.
(Btw, is smashboards messing up for anyone else?)
(06/26/2012 03:44 AM)`daze Wrote: [ -> ]Why do people think that this thread is for SERIOUSLY trying to make an official tier list? This isn't srsbusinessBRdiscussion. It's just for fun and to poke at curiosity.
You know when that didn't happen?
When people were only allowed to post lists.
We should be able to discuss our lists, or there isnt much of a point in making one
Also I'm putting Lucario back near where I originally had him in my list. Up-B super recovery mixups and Side-B game changer gimps help a lot more than I gave credit for.
Bunni's List version 3
Main is in bold, other characters in Italics.
Top Tier
1. Falco =
2. Sheik =
3. Fox =
4. Mario +1
5. Toon Link -1
6. Pit +1
7. Peach +1
8. Zelda -2
High Tier
9. Jigglypuff =
10. Wario +1
11. King DeDeDe +1
12. Marth +1
13. Pikachu -3
14. Wolf +5, moved to high (Still janky and more than a little sloppy in design, but w/e)
15. Ganondorf +1
16. DK -2
17. Captain Falcon -2
Middle Tier
18. Link -1
19. Luigi +1
20. R.O.B. -2
21. Lucario +4, moved to mid
22. Sonic =
23. Lucas =
Low Tier
24. Snake -3, moved to low
25. Ness -1
26. Ike +2
27. Bowser -1
28. Mr. Game and Watch -1
29. Charizard =
A Tier
Fox
Sheik
Falco
Wolf
Lucario
Mario
Zelda
Jigglypuff
Marth
Peach
Pikachu
B Tier
Wario
King Dedede
Toon Link
Link
Pit
Ike
Sonic
Luigi
Lucas
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
C Tier
DK
Ness
Snake
R.O.B
Bowser
Mr. Game & Watch
Charizard
Not any particular order, just sort of grouped them in how I viewed them in having more favorable match ups than the grouping beneath them.