Smash Mods

Samus (my main) also needs some nerfing, but I'll talk about that in the Samus thread.

So... Brawl minus tournament yesterday in the southwest "Phase". A Pikachu who's never even heard of Brawl- before basically got second place with 'up-B', 'b-air', and 'b' alone. Don't get me wrong this is probably one of the best pikachu's in the nation and he was a better player than most of the people he beat. But he beat them to a degree that just seemed unrealistic. Literally there is no way to catch him.

Running away while mashing 'b' is a legit tactic and it works. The 'b' attack actually stuns you quite a bit, and if you get hit by it, Pikachu can rush in with a zero lag 'up-b' and up smash you to death. There is no way to gimp Pikachu either. His 'up-b' is quick, goes ridiculously far, no lag after usage upon landing, and spikes, and has hefty priority...what were you guys thinking? In fact Pikachu can usually 'up-b' from the stage hit you while your recovering(gimp/spike you), and then 'up-b' back to the stage with virtually no risk at all.

Reflecting Jolt doesn't do anything because any good Pikachu is always in the air. The Jolt hugs walls, ground, and ceiling, shoots fast, deals heft damage, and sets up for 'up-b' to anything.

He beat Darkpo (an incredible ZSS) by running away, bolting, 'up-b' to 'n-air', and then created a wall of thunder to Stop ZSS from being able to come back. This happened about 6 or 7 times in the two matches. There was literally no way for Darkpo to get around that wall of spike.

The only thing that stopped him was UTDZack with Game&Watch's up throw to 'side-B' (He got like four or five of those). And his bucket literally saved his life from the onslaught of thunder jolts.

I also managed to steal one game from this Pikachu with Samus, but once he realized that his 'b-air' goes through all of Samus's homing missiles I couldn't keep up with his projectile game anymore.

Personal suggestions:
Up-B has very low priority and goes as far as it used to in normal brawl. (It was plenty far how it was).

Jolt...meh, there are so many ways to nerf it. You guys think of something.

B-air... it's fine the way it is. It's only in combination with jolt and 'up-b' else that make's it effective.

Here are the entire tournament results just in case you were wondering. It was a Brawl and Brawl Minus tournament. I also think I inspired everyone in the Southwest to use Samus now. She's way broken.

Brawl Singles (32) - View Bracket
1: UTDZac - G&W
2: Holms - Wolf / ZSS / ???
3: Dphat - MK / Wario
4: Denti - Olimar
5: Domo - MK
5: Bassem - Wario
7: Slaps - Ike
7: Dakpo - ZSS
9: Mr. Doom - Ike
9: Chuky - G&W
9: D4Ba - MK
9: K Prime - Pikachu
13: Typ_Ex - Falco
13: Chic - Luigi
13: Sethlon - 6-character build
13: FK - ZSS
17: FHero - MK
17: Bwett - Diddy
17: Clel - MK
17: C Spyker
17: Mumble
17: Bigfoot
17: KirbyKid
17: ALSM
25: RedShadow
25: Zolo
25: Shade
25: KingJ
25: Paw
25: Nike
25: Ginko
25: Raiku


Brawl Doubles (14) - View Bracket
1: UTDZac & Bwett (Team Unstoppable Morons)
2: Dphat & D4ba (Double MK gay)
3: Mr. Doom & Holms (Get it right!)
4: Ice & Bassem
5: Domo & Clel
5: Denti & Batou
7: KirbyKid & Marcus
7: FK & Dakpo
9: Ginko & Raikon
9: KPrime & Paw
9: Typ_Ex & Shade
9: RedShadow & Problemo
13: C Spyker & Zolo
13: FHero & ALSM


Brawl Minus Singles (20) - View Bracket
1: UTDZac - G&W / Cheat Codes
2: K Prime - Pikachu
3: Dakpo- ZSS / Luigi
4: Shade
5: Typ_Ex
5: Mr. Doom
7: Bassem
7: Sethlon
9: Awestin
9: Bigfoot
9: D4ba
9: Holms
13: Paw
13: Dphat
13: Bwett
13: ALSM
17: Mumble
17: KingJ
17: C Spyker
17: Slaps

You should probably wait until every character's movesets have been finalized before complaining about balance >_>

There really shouldn't be any "tournaments" for this still early beta-stage game right now anyway.

True true. From a designers point of view though it helps to fix the small things early before you've built too much on it.

Besides how else would you know how your project is going if no one beta tests it in between?

That's the thing about brawl minus: No one knows how its going, it's just kind of winged.

I agree with decreasing Up+B's range. Don't get me wrong, being able to recover from lightyears away is pretty cool, but I prefer more precision in my Quick Attack. It definitely needs vBrawl range, IMO.

Decreasing the firing rate of Thundershock is good, too. But I want an IASA into Quick attack.

I'd say slightly less quick thundershock and slightly less far quick attack could go a long way. Or maybe quick attack should only cancel on down and down angles like in vbrawl. I don't think pika needs any major nerfs though. Other characters should be brought up instead of the top ones bring brought down.

(08/29/2010 07:17 PM)Kink-Link5 Wrote: [ -> ]You should probably wait until every character's movesets have been finalized before complaining about balance >_>

There really shouldn't be any "tournaments" for this still early beta-stage game right now anyway.

Disagreed. We can't get balancing without having input from people, and I try to get as much as I can, since no one is perfect, nor does everyone play the same characters.

And not gonna go into detail, but we ARE trying to figure out the best method of taking Pika down a notch.

pika really is too stupid. you cna basically wing it and build a very safe and gay strategy involving his specials, then quick attack away when they get close. everything else is sprinkles on the cupcake: you only do it becuase you want to. combos are too easy and don't require any real thought, and thunder offstage is the number one gayest strategy to get easy KO's. I know, i do it all the time, its really too easy. if i can find my recording device im gonna upload the pikachu matches i have on there.


not that i want him nerfed. i love the gayness. too fun.

Pika is already getting some nerfs. Be on skype more often, Kojin, you would know these things.

(09/29/2010 12:14 PM)Monk Wrote: [ -> ]Pika is already getting some nerfs. Be on skype more often, Kojin, you would know these things.

People not on Skype should have the right to know too.

I know that. That's why I occasionally say that x thing is being looked into on character threads from time to time. I rather not make every change the BRoom makes public.

(09/29/2010 01:37 PM)Rkey Wrote: [ -> ]

(09/29/2010 12:14 PM)Monk Wrote: [ -> ]Pika is already getting some nerfs. Be on skype more often, Kojin, you would know these things.

People not on Skype should have the right to know too.

im on skype enough. i already knew that he was getting nerfs. i still wanted to say it though

Can his Grounded Down-B not last as long? He's just standing in a hitbox and as soon as the hitbox is gone he can move. Very hard to punish.

Also, Side-B. The charge should not be shield cancelable. As it is, the hitbox does too much when uncharged, and HOLY **** too much when charged. It's especially a problem that it can be shield canceled, since Pikachu's grabs have decent follow ups.

That said, I don't mind Pikachu that much. I used to really hate him, but now not so much.

I'd put him and Marth around 50-50. Marth's Fair stops Thundershock. Marth can chaingrab him pretty well. Pikachu dies pretty low. At Rumble Falls+, I would put it around 60-40 in Marth's favor.

(10/01/2010 08:43 PM)filbert Wrote: [ -> ]Can his Grounded Down-B not last as long? He's just standing in a hitbox and as soon as the hitbox is gone he can move. Very hard to punish.

The fuck? It's barely changed from vBrawl. Just an extended invincibility duration for Thunder 2 and the ability to jump cancel it in the air and shield cancel it on the ground. Take those away and make it take even LONGER for it to end and it becomes a nerf of vBrawl! And last time I checked, Brawl- was about making things more broken than they are normally, not worse! Sorry for the rage, but come on, Pikachu's thunder isn't THAT hard to get around. Geez, I'd approve reflective F-Tilts for everyone before that.

(10/01/2010 08:43 PM)filbert Wrote: [ -> ]Also, Side-B. The charge should not be shield cancelable. As it is, the hitbox does too much when uncharged, and HOLY **** too much when charged. It's especially a problem that it can be shield canceled, since Pikachu's grabs have decent follow ups.

That said, I don't mind Pikachu that much. I used to really hate him, but now not so much.

I'd put him and Marth around 50-50. Marth's Fair stops Thundershock. Marth can chaingrab him pretty well. Pikachu dies pretty low. At Rumble Falls+, I would put it around 60-40 in Marth's favor.

Skull Bash raises defense by one stage in Pokemon and strikes the next turn, giving the enemy ample time to counter. It makes PERFECT sense. ...though personally I had super armor instead of shield-cancel on my own hack.

Maybe the damage can use reduction though. Definitely get rid of that damn increased hitlag at least. IMO, it makes little or no sense to have an attack last longer than it needs to when unwanted.

"And Pikachu had no landing lag on his moves. His QA and Thunder in particular were extremely spammable, safe, and, if used properly, make Pikachu nearly untouchable or unreachable. And then he still has his TJolt (which is staying) and Pikacopter (also staying) to rack up quick damage whenever he wants. Pika was just too safe with all of his options."
This is a message from the BRoom. This is the reason he is getting some changes. Keep in mind, not all changes are final! See this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iuPDZ--3Io

I liked Pikachu, but i don´t get it why they removed his thunder jolt?

Welcome Android! =D

What do you mean removed his thunderjolt? The semi-spike properties or the speed? He still has the move.

I am sure the downb in that vid won't stay. Spiking thunder will probably stay.

Thunderjolt is neutral-b, thunder is down-b.

I thought he didn´t have that anymore...Smasher told me that anyway.

I appreciate the nerfs already put on Up-B, but more might be nice. I'm assuming everyone saw that combo video, and it's just too good.